He flashed his private parts at her and told her that raping her would please him – no big deal, right?

Published: September 17, 2017
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Another female narrated her incident on Facebook with the photos of men who harassed her. PHOTO: FACEBOOK

The other day, I was randomly scrolling through Facebook when I came across a long post by girl who had been harassed on her way to work by a guy on a bike who flashed his private parts at her. So common, right? Let us just keep scrolling, my brain hinted. There was a video attached to the post as well, and it automatically began playing before I could scroll past it.

As I watched the video, I realised that the car looked oddly familiar, and then I realised that the girl was in fact my own sister. I kept watching as anger engulfed me. I did not realise what I just saw, all of a sudden, every traumatic memory I had came back to me, and once again, I was that girl who was groped inside a school van.

Photo: Screenshot

I know that this is common. I know it happens to numerous people on a daily basis. But this was different, this was my sister.

As soon as I collected myself, I called her up to see if she was doing any better. She was not; I could tell from the silence at the end of the line that she was numb. She could barely formulate words, but she did tell me one thing – her silence was not out of fear. She said it was mere anger for the man who thought it was his birthright to call out lewd remarks at her friend sitting in the passenger seat.

Even though the man seemed to be sure of what he was doing, that is, harassing two women who did him no wrong at all, he was also embarrassed to associate himself with his actions. So when the girls started making a video, he turned his face sideways. This raises an important question – do men continue doing these things while knowing fully that they are in the wrong, and if they were exposed, they would have to go through immense shame? He knew that he would not get caught, he would have to endure no consequences. Because obviously, two women were not capable of catching a mighty man on the street and obviously, our legal system was not going to do anything either. Then why did he hide his face?

The only possible explanation is that in Pakistan, and all over the world, men are given the higher ground. They are superior beings, they can do anything and everything and the world will still blame the women, telling them that they are at fault. So he had nothing to worry about because he knew a ‘worse scenario’ for him did not exist and never will.

The comments under the original post were telling my sister to wear a dupatta, because that is what ultimately protects the woman. What I fail to understand is, why are men still telling women what to do to be safe, when they can call out other men for making the city an unsafe place for the ‘other’ gender?

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the post was that her anger is justified. Imagine having to go through someone flashing their private body parts at you and implying that sexually assaulting you would give them pleasure. How is our society so indifferent towards incidents like this? At this point, people do not even bother because what does not directly affect them apparently does not matter.

When my sister finally got to work, people asked her why she was late and she had to say something. Firstly, she was completely traumatised and had to go through several different routes to dodge the perpetrator. And secondly, some men had the audacity to tell her that she should have been carrying a weapon on her, someone even stated that she should have had a rod to hit the man with. I would love to thank them for their consideration…

I do have one question for them though – how many men do they know in Karachi who travel with a rod in one hand and manage a steering wheel and the gears in the other? Clearly, women were born with more problems in their lives but not enough hands to handle those problems.

After all, it was not that bad. The man did not touch her or physically assault her. Why was she making a huge deal about it? Because whether people want to accept the reality or not, harassment is a big deal. Always has been and always will be. Victims should not be silenced, instead the perpetrators should be punished.

All of this has been prevailing in our streets for so long that women have become accustomed to such treatment. But that does not make it okay or acceptable. A little groping here and there in public is just the way it is supposed to be, right? My sister is not the only person I know who has gone through this kind of situation. When I was in the seventh grade, my friend, who was the same age as me, encountered a fully-grown man trying to unzip his trousers to show her his private parts. Imagine – a little girl being exposed to something like that. Imagine the trauma. It was a narrow street and she could not do much so she tried to ignore him and kept on walking.

Incidents like these have scarred women for years and they are still not given the acknowledgement that they deserve. Another friend once narrated a similar incident. She was on her way to work when a man began following her. Apparently, her lipstick was just too tempting for him. Apparently, her make-up was an excuse for him to catcall her when he shouted,

Gulabi hont, humein bhi chaat lou!

(Rosy lips, lick us too!)

Imagine going out of your way, following a car to a place that is not your desired destination, just to shout out lecherous remarks to a girl who is minding her own business.

How many more cases will it take for us to understand that this is difficult? With the number of harassment cases increasing day by day, there are still voices that are unheard or too scared to speak up. If more women out there spoke up about their experiences, society would understand how much a victim is affected by something like this. So much so, that there are many women out there who hate the existence of the male gender because of what a few have put them through.

I know that things are changing. In fact, women are rising and I sincerely hope that one day, our voices will be louder and stronger than the entitlement that men in Pakistan have.

Rida K.

Rida Khan

The writer is a college student making attempts at smashing patriarchy. She tweets @Ridakhxn_ [twitter.com/Ridakhxn_]

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • vinsin

    If Muslim girl do not wear Burqa/Niqab, then how come Muslim men know whether they are Muslim or not?

    Also was girl traveling with her any relatives for protection?Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Well That is Pakistan for you. If a woman is raped then she needs to present 4 eye witnesses in the court to prove she was raped. Talk of double standards.Recommend

  • Irfan Farooqui

    Sad sister what you have face and such cruel bad character people of our society must be hangRecommend

  • Ahmed

    Being brother and a young father, these illicit virtues of our society agitate me to extreme, but in my opinion the situation to this problem is not writing a blog or posting it on facebook accusing all men as its would only be my kind of men reading this who can swear never even called on girls, on the contrary even if these very guys have read the same, it wont make any difference to them, all I can share is my experience of such similar situation I had experienced at a very young age in presence of my sister (probably I was 7 my sister would be 8, disgusting right knowing we were only kids) yet somehow I had nerves to shout at near by group of young men highlighting this, they not only got hold of him but made an example out of him, forced him to beg forgiveness and then handed him over to police without us getting involved so i dont know what police did to him, one thing to mention here I can ensure you those all young men were not of very high morality yet everyone loves to be hero in Pakistan given a chance we should use this fact for such guys…
    Anyhow our women instead of accusing all men and referring Islam while complaining (countries where you get punished for such deeds under islamic laws such as saudia arabia, men cant even dream doing this) our women must take a stand just like any boy would have taken if he would have been abused be it crashing your car into him, only then these immoral creatures will think a million time before believing a women to be weak..Recommend

  • jssidhoo

    A very sorry state of affairs . I sympathise with your sister .Recommend

  • umar

    These kind of disgusting men should be castrated. That’s the only solution. A separate police wing should be set up just to deal with Harassment issues. South Asia definitely is one of the worst places for women to live in.Recommend

  • Danyal

    It happened with one of my classmate 3 times from nipa chowrangi to karachi university. She says different guys on bikes follow the qinqis and show their private parts to girls. This issue needed to be raised. Good work writer.Recommend

  • Reeba

    This is due to gender segregation in the society. When both genders get to know each other and mingle since childhood, such type of behaviors will not persist and men will act more like protectors than persecutors.Recommend

  • Umar

    It saddens to me the core that these articles assume that there’s a secret alliance of men which holds it monthly sittings and hence it is perfectly logical to assign the blame on the whole gender. I am not sure what is so outrageous about sharing preventive measures keeping in view the law and order of the country. While I fully agree that the issue must be addressed at more fundamental level but a backlash on people for sharing preventive measures just because they share similar anatomy is completely ridiculous. On the side note pepper spray is much more pragmatic than a rod and is a standard self defense tool in different part of the world.Recommend

  • Fahad Uddin

    Once I was travelling in a public bus and I saw a man masturbating in public in a bus. Anything is possible in Pakistan because of the level of sexual frustration.Recommend

  • kp

    Its sick society be it Pakistan or India after-all we are same family linage that transferred us the so called orthodox beliefs, we should be ashamed of ourselves that what we have become. For us a women is just an objectRecommend

  • ab

    The most advance country in the world has got the most rape cases that is US. (just search it). i found canada, Australia,sweden the so called advance civilized countries. The country where there is a capital punishment for zina has the least rape cases in the world and that is Saudia Arabia. So my sister, the reality is that the things will never change by women rising to what ever heights. they will change by implementing sharia law.Recommend

  • Sara Zia

    hang them till death thay r mentally ill how can they respect any women if they cant respect theirselvesRecommend

  • David Salmon

    No comments yet?

    Then let me make a suggestion. Create a Facebook or other website for exposing the men who harass women. Quite a few women carry cellphones these days. If they photographed the harassers, then posted the photos on the website with particulars about where and when it occurred, other women might be able to identify the offenders. Perhaps other women can assist.

    But, as a retired lawyer, I must also add that you should get some good legal advice first, as making a public derogatory charge of this kind may expose you to libel or slander suits, or worse. Perhaps other lawyers can assist.

    What was the outcome of posting the two photos included with this article?

    DavidRecommend

  • Rehan Rashid

    Why had our society made it so that men who make conscious decisions to harass someone are not judged on said decisions? Is this the moral bar we have set for ourselves?Recommend

  • Muhammad Shohaib Hassan

    I would have loved to read some where in this article that she was wearing a abaya but she wasn’t.
    For her own protection, I would advise her to wear abaya/ cloak. No one would dare to touch or even stare at her.Recommend

  • MURTAZA KAZMI

    The best thing what should be in this case, is that their motor bike number should have been noted, and a complaint should have been lodged with the police, and the police’s responsibility to deal with such issues, but everyone knows our policie is muk mukao thing, i lnow what the the police would have said, “please change your route. you don’t need to bother talking to these idle boys
    any way we need a strong community police, who shall serve the law and the community not the chamchas of the periodical government, i witnessed a similar case yesterday 17/9/17, a girl accompanied by her mother just left service station (pso pump just after akubhospital) i just saw her passing by, when i left service station, saw the same lady and her mother out of the car on the road opposite to Mcdonald, yelling in hysteria my first thought was that maybe they made an accident, but as i reached them it got to be the same case of harassment, i think something should be done in this particular perspective.Recommend

  • Muhammad Ather

    Though this is not the only solution but it will be effective to some extent.Recommend

  • Yusra Rahim

    Lol reallyRecommend

  • Yusra Rahim

    I was in 10th grade and walking to school and I was wearing an abaya full black only my eyes could be seen and even my hands and feet were completely covered there was no one in the way to school cuz I was a bit late so I was minding my own business when I suddenly felt someone groping me and he was sitting on a bicycle and he was so so close to me it all happened in the split of a second so I could nothing to stop him I was extremely shocked after the shock wore off he was already gone and I quickly looked behind me to see if anyone was there and if they saw him do that because I don’t know why but I was the One who felt embarrassed and it was not even my fault because society always blames the female for wearing something provocative as if an abaya is so provocative he couldn’t resist . To this day I am always scared whenever I hear a bike or a bicycle coming from behind me on a road. This is to shut up all the people saying “Oh she should have worn a Burka or abaya than he wouldn’t have dared to do anything”Recommend

  • Muhammad Ather

    Feeling ashamed towards the dignity of men. The protectors of weak. I couldn’t believe that the society is now on this embarrassingly stinky.Recommend

  • Muhammad Ather

    Wonderful.Recommend

  • Farrukh Gohar

    Very pointed and concisely written. Rule of law in such cases is obviously as bad as any other situation, so no point hoping for specific laws and their true implementation. Important thing is this issue isn’t socially discussed for fear of God knows what. I think in the short to medium term, the solution is to generate discussion and make such behavior socially unacceptableRecommend

  • Abdul hadi

    The society going in way to achieve Freedom & Democracy with lack of education then these are the consequences. Liberals or moderate who want to ensure women protection or Freedom and make West as criteria doesn’t know that in west women harassed in every min when she walk on street.Recommend

  • Milind A

    Saudi or other Arab countries have the least rape cases because its not because these are not reported, not because these do not happen. Further there’s lot of sexual deviation due to suppression. Everybody’s aware of how maids from the sub-continent and Phillipines, Sri Lanka undergo an harrowing experience in Arab countries. So let’s not pretend that Arab’s are saints, though I agree that capital punishment would be a deterrent. finally all those Western countries that you mentioned, offer justice to girls/rape victims, something which is rarely done in the Muslim world.Recommend

  • rationalist

    Not quire correct. It has to be four male Muslim men witnesses.Recommend

  • anonymousx11

    4 eye witnesses are required for adultery for applying capital punishment. Rape isn’t a form of adultery.

    As rape isn’t categorized as adultery, so punishment can vary from prison to a capital punishment, no 4 witnesses required.

    In my point of view, rape or serious sexual harassment should be punished with capital or near capital punishment. Such a law is much needed in India as well as in Pakistan. But our Desi Librals will cry over harsh punishments. Same is true for India.

    @ratioalist: At the fundamental level humans are only rational if they have ample credible information to decide about a subject matter otherwise we are irrational beings.

    Capitol punishment for ADULTERY needs four credible witnesses who claims the happening of the event, if anyone differ from other will get 80 lashes. FYI: in ancient time lashes were given with leather whip, some people reported dead after getting 40 to 60 of them. This happened for wrongly accusing a person.Recommend

  • anonymousx11

    I would love to see respect for women regardless of their attire. Abaya might be a choice/obligation for a Muslim woman but what about a non-Muslim women?

    Law should not discriminate over religious affiliation.

    So I render your opinion irrelevant and unnecessary.Recommend

  • Qasim Cheema

    This is not the only problem in Pakistan, minorities, poor or underpriviliged in the general sense all face the same problem in our country. This cannot be fixed until law & order situation of Pakistan is corrected. Till then scums like above will roam the country harrasing whoever is weaker than them.Recommend

  • Abdul Haseeb

    That’s why I prefer that people should have their cars adequately insured……………………Should have drove your car into that shameless manRecommend

  • Hasan

    There should be public awareness programs and, subjects taught at school level about sexual harassment and how to protect yourself from unwanted attention.Recommend

  • Rummaan Rathor

    I read only a few replies to this article. Didnt feel like reading more than a few. Especially those written by gentlemen such as the one whose post im currently replying to. Women and children are raped and abused far more in our country, not counting sexual harassment, than any western country. Statistically their rape rates are higher simply because they are recorded. They even have a concept of “date rape” over there, which people in Pakistan wouldnt even begin to conceive because they believe here that if two people are courting each other, and the man forces himself on the woman, even then it was consentual. :) So yes, the numbers are higher in the west. Because people bother reporting their rape cases there. I know people in Pakistan who were raped and abused and never told a single soul about it out of shame. Also to the gentlemen who like to point out that you protect yourself if you wear an abaya in Pakistan, one of such raped women that I mentioned did wear an abaya. In fact she even covered her face. I sincerely believe education to the men needs to start at home. I belong to the educated class of Pakistan and it shocks me sometimes when I hear boys and men from my social radius judge women over the most trivial issues. I dont even feel like writing more. God help the women of this country.Recommend

  • simsam

    and the arab sheikhs who come to your country for haubara hunting are the most pious man according to google.Recommend

  • sunny

    hahaha u are saying the main cause of that beghairti was that she was not wearing abaya…what rubbish is this.every girl has same body either she is sister,mother,wife or anyone else.what the boy did that was simply beghairti .sorry there is no other word better than thisRecommend

  • Andil Khan

    Learn to fend for yourself ….stop playing the victim card and do something about it….Recommend

  • Sidra Rashid

    Under-reporting of sexual harassment cases doesn’t in any way imply that sharia law is the solution or Arabic countries have lower rape and harassment cases as Ramman Rathor mentioned…For the sake of argument if we even believe that it is true, going by your comment, it seems perfectly fine practice to divest women of their rights just because it’s not going to change the stats. People like you have the most crude sense of morality which is never going to evolve.Recommend

  • Sidra Rashid

    Almost every other girl can relate to this account of traumatizing incident, be it a girl in abaya or without abaya. Now a days, even boys as young as 12 are seen to pass suggestive remarks on passing by girls. I have gone through such traumatic incidents when I used to be covered from head to toe with cloth.There is hardly a day when I go out and don’t have to listen to lewd remarks. But these men will still manage to come up with plethora of justifications for all sorts of sexual harassment. For reference, comments under this blog are enough i fail to see how these men are any different than the boys harassing the girls in this particular incident.Recommend

  • Sidra Rashid

    You’re right Yusra..many of us go through such humiliating insults on daily basis. I have experienced the same when I was just a child and later in my university days. The perpetrators came from all the classes, ranging from a poor daily-wage worker to a university student to an upper level manager working in a professional environment… these men have no idea of what women are made to go through for it’s not them who are suffering.Recommend

  • ab

    you can’t read the word sharia law. Do i have to bold itRecommend

  • ab

    by the way Saudi Arabia is not a model Islamic state but whatever something is there it give resultsRecommend

  • Yogi Berra

    You are so wrong. Even in case of rape you need 4 Men witnesses. Also non Muslims and women are considered half witness. Not full like Muslims men. Check your facts and then we will debate.Recommend

  • Aadil Malick

    Yeah and someone from “India” is talking over rape and harassment… Why don’t you tell me more as Indians are more experienced over suppressing such issues, don’t you?Recommend

  • Aadil Malick

    Well ladies, “hit n run” could work better in such scenarios!!! Don’t hesitate, just hit!!!Recommend

  • Umar Saif Tirmizi

    Bro please problem is not cloak or anything else its the mentality …..
    You just can’t ristrict a women to abaya
    If a women were to harass you for example would you wear abaya all day to protect yourself…..come on please read the article carefully if understood then coment if not then don’t comment.😑Recommend

  • layla hai

    I have been living in Saudia Arabia for quite some time and have definitely felt an obvious difference in the way women are treated here. Saudis respect women a lot. Parda is extremely criticised in modern society but I believe it truly is the best thing. Parda doesn’t stop you from reaching your goals, neither physically nor socially. It is a protective measure against men. And men are men everywhere!
    I was never a proponent of black burkas and parda but after seeing for myself how women are treated like queens here, my outlook on naqab and parda is changing.
    Besides what I have observed is that Pakistani women are usually too fond of wearing heavy makeup on a daily basis, which does attract unwanted attention,unfortunately. Is wearing makeup and showing off really that esteemed than wearing a hijab?Recommend

  • layla hai

    How are maids treated in Pakistan? Women here as I have seen from my own eye, are far more “happier” than so-called modern pakistani working women. Women here are working in the hospitals, schools and other areas and they are given a lot of respect. Just being a woman gives you a lot of advantage here in terms of respect. Males without families are not even allowed in most public recreation places. Then there is the police everywhere on guard. You couldnt feel safer anywhere else in the world. Yes Saudis are no saints. There is a lot that is wrong with them and I do acknowledge that. But I think it is unfairly denied that parda offers no protection at all! That is untrue. In most cases, it does offer greater protection comparatively.Recommend

  • Hassan
  • Taste

    yes there is bad behavior, dirty looks and wandering hands in Pakistan among some depraved males but Pakistan is not India. You do not have daily rapes which is why India is known as the rape capital of the world. If our men are watching Indian movies and learning this culture from India, those Indian movies should be stopped.Recommend

  • Rummaan Rathor

    With all due respect, our women do not wear provocative make up. If anyone, the women in KSA do. I wouldnt call it provocative because using that word is simply too derrogatory and exaggerating seeing as we are talking about make up here for Godsake. Its not clothes. Arab women accentuate their eyes in such a manner even when half their face is covered it leaves the person looking at them thinking what kind of beauty would lie beneath the veil. Lol. Men simply need to be reigned back by our society. This excuse “men will be men” is outrageous and its about time our society quashes this slogan. This behavior which is considered acceptable for the male because somehow our people believe they are biologically programmed to have a magnanimous libido is stupid. I know a boy who was drugged and raped by a gang of abusive women. Rape, sexual harassment, and all other forms of abuse and morally decadent behavior are not things a gender is inclined towards more because of some biological factor. Circumstances prevailing in a society lead to such happenstances. For instance yes it is a fact that African Americans have a higher crime rate in the US than the caucasian populace. Why? Not because they are inclined to violence because of their race. Its because of the conditions they have lived in and what has surrounded them for centuries and still does. They resort to such acts. The cycle has to break. In our country, men actually get away with being nothing short of vile animals. Society permits it. Im saying yes women need to stay safe but the men need to be stopped. Their mentality altered. And as to how it should be done. My appeal would be to the mothers of the next generation. Please raise your sons to be better men than their predecessors. Being men is not all about being strong but being compassionate. I believe women hold the power to change how they are treated, not through protests and these discussions we are having so much as they can by altering their parenting techniques by fostering and instilling morals in their sons of what a woman is and setting new criteria of how she commands respect.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Looks like I left a bad Taste in your mouth. In Pakistan the rapes happen every second. These rapes are not reported to police and even less to media. It is worst patriarchal society on planet. Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    The difference between India and Pakistan is honesty and transparency. Such problems are squarely faced by Indian society. People march on the street in protest. These rapes are reported in police and in media. Media throws lot of spotlight on such crimes. Now compare with Pakistan where most rapes do not get reported in police or media. Where will this poor women get four male witnesses to prove rape. Also see how you treat minority women in your country. Recommend

  • Shehryar Khan

    That shows reality of our society,,,what we r teaching them in schools ,homes and society.Its a clear depiction that how he was raised up.these people must be punished but its impossible in pakistan judical system…so our sisters should follow an islamic dress and should have brother or any other mehram going outside,,,,u can not change their atitude but atleast u can protect urselves.Recommend

  • Biny

    Sharia law – forcing women to cover head to foot? Is that your idea to protect women. Please read the article again, women need to be protected from men – yes pakistani male mentality. Not all men are like this but too many are as their upbringing and mature adult morality has failed. Being a muslim man should be better at morality than others.Recommend

  • Memona

    Most of Pakistan inherited its culture from India due to living with Hindus for thousands of years.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    That is why we are asking Muslims in India to leave India and go to Pakistan or Middle East. They have no place in Hindu India.Recommend

  • sterry

    Saudis respect women? Why not ask Saudi women who are running away and openly complaining about how they are treated there in a country where they can’t drive or leave the home unattended. Ever seen Saudi men and how they behave when they are outside of their country? The hijab is needed there because of the mind of the Saudi man – nothing else.
    http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/25/saudi-rape-arrests-los-angeles.htmlRecommend

  • Memona

    You can’t rightfully tell any citizen of India to leave India based on their religions. Hindus are not the owners of India nor does hindus own the history of sub continent.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    80% of India is Hindus. We also count Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists as part of India. But not Muslims. In 1947 Pakistan was created for Muslims. They must leave India and settle in Pakistan as per agreement. Recommend

  • Memona

    In that order pakistan requires its land back from India to take 200 million muslims that land includes Himachal Pradesh, Haryana and Punjab which were parts of greater Punjab.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Whole of India belongs to Hindus I am afraid.
    It is in fact very likely that in future Pakistan will lose Baluchistan and FATA. Like she lost East Pakistan in 1971. Pakistanis have forgotten the lessons of 1971. Recommend

  • Memona

    India belongs to inhabitants of Indus Valley civilization and they were not Hindus, according to facts the people living in Indus Valley weren’t Hindus until Aryans arrived there. So you can’t really say whole of India belongs to Hindus. Your just a hindu convert. Your ancestors prob didn’t even saw holy land Indus Valley like my ancestors never saw Mecca.
    Im not worry about Baluchistan or FATA. I’m saying India should return the land of greater Punjab to its rightful people.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    So Why not ask your army to attack and snatch it from India? Isn’t it easy for your Army to accept this easy solution? But then how come they are unable to snatch Kashmir from India while trying for last 70 years? If you cannot snatch Kashmir from India then how can you snatch Punjab? Recommend

  • Memona

    Did I say we want to snatch any of the land from India? And must you talk violences? As far as I know IOK is still not part of India and India still doesn’t have any influence in IOK even after 70 yrs. and Punjab also does not share anything with rest of India. It all make senses.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    But your people dream of Kashmir and they say Kashmir is a jugular vein of Pakistan. The existence of Pakistan depends on Kashmir conflict. If Muslims in Kashmir or Pakistan want separate Kashmir from India then they need to go to war with India and snatch it. India believes that the land of Kashmir belongs to India (even if those Kashmiri Muslims may belong to Pakistan or whatever). India will run its writ over whole of India including Kashmir.
    And why do you think Punjab does not share anything with India? Who is brainwashing you with such propaganda? Why not talk to people living in Punjab and find out.Recommend

  • Memona

    you don’t understand entire Kashmir region and Punjab region belonged to what is now Pakistan. What there is to dream about? People of these regions are more culturally close to Pakistan than rest of India. You talk about war because you rightfully know IOK doesn’t belong to India. As for punjabis in India they know more about Peshawar,rawalpindi, Faisalabad and Lahore than Delhi.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Actually entire Pakistan and Bangladesh (East Pakisatan?) belonged to Hindus if we apply your standard.
    Your comment on Punjabis tells me that you do not know any thing about Punjabis living in India. Listen, No one looks up to Pakistanis as a role model or a desirable place to go and live! Forget Punjabis even Indian Muslims do not identify with Pakistani Muslims. They think they are far superior to Pakistani Muslims. I will leave this dispute you Muslims to resolve. But point I am making is Pakistani have such a bad reputation that no one wants to know or live with them any where in the world.
    And By the way, Indian Punjab have Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and Dalits living in there. So which Punjabis are you talking about?Recommend

  • Memona

    Your a converted hindu not original therefore nothing really belongs to Hindus living on a land which borrows its name and history from our land. The name of Punjab is derived from Persian it was colonized by Persians.
    No, Let me correct you it is the Pakistani muslims who do not identify with Indian muslims that’s why Indian muslims are still known as “muhajirs “in Pakistan. It is not about being the role model or have reputation it is about being the superior race in sub continent that’s what we are.Recommend

  • layla hai

    I believe women are degraded in EVERY society. Is it not true? Western women have to work TWICE than what women in eastern cultures have to do. Further, I personally think it is mostly individual experiences and not collective that determine the satisfaction wih life. You will find happy and complaining people in every society. I do admit some flaws in Saudi society as well, but I have seen a very positive movement here. There are more women in universities and business than you would imagine.
    Yes many women might feel crippled by the Saudi laws, but you are forgetting by not counting an equal or more large number of women who are perfectly fine with their saudi culture and infact support it openly. And unless you live here, you will not be able to appreciate the culture. I have come here only recently and I really love the family oriented atmosphere here. No one has the nerve to even look at a woman, let alone harrass or brandish private parts. And here in Jeddah, pardah is not even that strict. Many women walk around with uncovered heads and they are all respected much more than a woman can be anywhere else in the world. The respect I am talking about is for instance, at a mall, if in a queue, man will move aside and respectfully guide the woman first place in the line. I had very negtive views about saudi society but after moving here, I find the difference very positive and relieving. Purdah actually gives u a lot of freedom in a lot of ways. But that is another discussion. PeaceRecommend

  • layla hai

    I am sorry if it comes off from my comment that I “accept” the behavior of men. That is not what I wanted to say. But you can not argue the instinctual needs of a creature called “man”. It is a scientific fact that woman stimulates the sexual nerve centres in the brain of all NORMAL men. I believe ideally, no man should be allowed to even look at a woman even if she is walking around naked. But this idealism just wouldn’t work in real society. People in a real society have varied beliefs and prejudices. A naked woman may look like an invitation to most men. Similarly in our society, women with makeup and women with accessories to bejewel them comes off as an invitation to many (not all) men. There is a difference in what should the society be like, and what it can actually be. I have heard majority of men in our society think a woman publicly wearing a lipstick is inviting them for attention. It just is what it is. We cant change it no matter how much we may dislike it. It is just better and wiser to protect yourself because survival demands wisdom. And wisdom is to protect yourself instead of changing others. You cant eliminate hungry sharks from the sea but you can take protective measures to protect yourself. Similarly I believe this mind set can only be eradicated by imparting extremely high levels of morality in children right from the start. Since according to psychology, a child’s personality completely develops by the age of 7 years. Unless we radically change our schooling systems and introduce ethics and morality at an early age, we just can’t expect the society to change to our liking.
    And yes you are right on point when you say that mothers must groom their sons to be better citizens. I am married and I can say my husband is an exemplary man. So I do believe that such respectful men exist in our society as well. It is only a matter of nurture and imparting an elevated sense of morality right from a very young age. That sense of morality can not be imparted when you are going to the two extremes. I do believe that very high fashion women in our society are actually a degradation of women. They serve no useful purpose to the betterment of society and usually only work to impress others by the brands of clothing they wear and the brands of lipstick they wear. I have seen women in complete burkas here who have earned degrees in science fields.
    Also makeup does hint at sexuality. Not a hint actually, it is sexual. You yourself said that makeup shouldnt be viewed as sexual but then you went on and explained how arab women make their eyes look seductive by makeup. See the clash in your own thinking? Well to further prove my point that makeup DOES denote sexuality, you can search a lot of brands of lipsticks and many have names like “seductive”, “charming”, “flirty” , “nude” ,”sensational”, sultry and even the word “sex”. Would you deny the sexual connotation?. Now I am not saying that wearing makeup is evil but there are certain limitations as to where you should be wearing it and on which occasion. If you are wearing it at a family gathering then good, but if you show off a full face of makeup in a bazar then I think that strongly reeks of a attention-seeker.
    As for Saudia, the best thing here is that even though there are ultra rich people here, you would never see any show of money, brands, or clothes at any place. Sure women do wear all that they want and carry thousands of dollars worth of purses, but not in public, at their family gatherings, which I think is very elegant and graceful. Secondly I don’t know where the famous arab eye makeup got famous but I have not seen any saudi woman with any eye makeup even in the most modern city of KSA. Yes some women wear a lot of makeup and guess what, they are usually Pakistanis! Arab women have a sense of grace that dims women of other nationalities. simply because arab women, as I have observed, are very simple and contented.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    You are making hilarious claims of being superior. Just look at Pakistan and Pakistanis….but look at them in other countries. Pakistanis are poor performers on all matters…income, hygiene, crime, education, health. In fact if you search on Google and YouTube you will find many reports published by Pakistanis them selves. Today overriding angst of pakistani nationalists is that the overseas Pakistanis pass them as Indians and do not identify themselves as Pakistanis. Why are they so ashamed of being Pakistanis if they are so called “superior”? Why they are so poor and uneducated and live off doles in so many western prosperous countries where opportunities are boundless for smart and hard working people? In these countries you see Indians and Chinese and Jews are thriving. Per capita Income of Indians living in liberal market economies like US and UK is higher than most other groups. They tend to achieve very high educational achievements. Many are serving in governments as PMs, politicians and high ranking government officers. Many MNC CEOs are now Indians. Now that is what I call superior performance and genes. And that kind of performance calls for far higher IQ than what Pakistanis are endowed with. I suggest you stop your empty rhetoric and strictly go by published facts and data points. Recommend

  • Memona

    And you sound hilarious bragging about those Indians who left India for better life in west. Indians top the citizenship list in acquiring other countries’ nationalities. You should be ashamed not proud. There must be something wrong with India that’s why a lot of Indians are running away seeking ways to acquire other countries nationalities, giving up their Indian citizenships and making pledge allegiance to other countries. And I’m pretty sure whenever you Indians talk about Pakistan and India you forget india outnumbered Pakistanis by over a billion. And you thought I was referring being superior to modern day slavery in west.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    India was pseudo secular and socialist for last 70 years under Congress rule. India was non functional not because it implemented socialism poorly but it was non functional because that socialism and secularism (Muslim appeasement) was implemented faithfully. Since 1991 economic liberalism India is growing faster than most countries. At this point in time and for next 20 years India will be fastest growing economy. Those who are properly educated and willing to work hard will be benefited in this market economy. That is the reason many Indians living outside India are returning back to establish businesses like Chinese did some time ago. That is the reason more than 10B USD venture capital came in to invest in Indian start-ups. Total FDI in India was 100B plus last year. If Indians can prosper outside India due to superior genes then they can do the same in India given right conditions. At least Hindus, Jains and Sikhs are expected to do well in this century. I doubt that will happen in Pakistan because Pakistanis have not prospered even in most nurturing capitalist countries in the world. There is no chance they will do so within Jihadi infested Pakistan. They lack something vital between their two ears. You know what I mean.Recommend

  • Memona

    Pakistan does not have 1.3 billion people to count on so it will take some time.Recommend

  • SHAH S

    Not living…. Ruling Hindus.. for a thousand years;Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Pakistan does not have quality. You do have quantity. Lot of it. Teeming 200 Millions of them…Recommend

  • Memona

    yeah kind of quality you are alway begging from west and quantity more than china.Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    That kind of quantity with quality will make India super power in next 20 years. Alas there won’t be a country named Pakistan by then to witness India’s rise in the world. It would have disintegrated long ago.Recommend

  • Memona

    Wishful thinking but you shouldn’t talk big on your merely 2 trillion economy which is running on one engine of public spending and is not yet even close to shadow of something called Superpower 😂 on top of it your a third world country with desi mentality always depending on West for everything and always comparing with Pakistan not even china.
    And It was India which was ruled by foreigners through out the history and later divided into three pieces what makes you think history won’t repeat itself knowing the Muslim population in India is more than of Indonesia’s.. knowing you are living on borrowed history and name of your country from my land. How can you even talk in front of me like that?Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Why not touch base after 10 years and then we compare India’s economy with Pakistan’s? What do you say? I am aware that I am of course making a big assumption that Pakistan will exist in it’s current format till 2027. That is big risk in this bet.
    Now regarding Muslims in India. Do not worry. They are being educated and trained every day to be our slaves. In next 10 years I hope I might have many success stories on that front also. Just look at Gujarat. After 2002 riots Gujarat is very peaceful. Every body has accepted their place in the over all scheme of things. Nobody tries to step out of the boundaries. In fact I hear that many Muslims are gonna vote for Modi in the coming state elections. Especially Muslim women who are big fan of Modi Sab after the recent triple Talaq decision.Recommend

  • Memona

    Oh please don’t make me laugh and importantly don’t waste my time with your silly assumptions, kindly stick to adult conversation. You are talking as if you have seen the future. Pakistan is not as big as India with multiple religions to be divided in future OR too small to cease to exist. The the problem with you hindus is you get too emotional too quickly and make big assumptions based on your hatred. After what you hindus have been through out the centuries by foreigners you should not even make any ill assumptions against other countries. Remember you were once a slave.
    Modi is nothing but a tea vendor, Murderer and a failed leader who is taking credit of everything done by Congress with empty patriotic slogans and playing religion card. if he stick around an other 10 yrs India will be in civil war that’s my presumption he already made things worst for Muslims.Recommend

  • Fariha Hasan

    Lol:-D simple cloaks just wouldn’t be effective invisibility cloaks maybe would workRecommend

  • Fariha Hasan

    Oh my God!!!! Itna taasub!!!Recommend

  • Yogi Berra

    Reality. That is all I can say. You can sugar coat bitter truth.Recommend