Occupy Islamabad!

Published: October 19, 2011

A demonstrator celebrates as a police vehicle burns during a demonstration of the ‘Indignant’ group in Rome. The protesters have now spread worldwide. PHOTO: REUTERS

For decades, we have heard, and chanted, slogans against the evils of capitalism. We have witnessed the monopolization of multinational corporates and intensifying ratio of starvation, growing side by side. We have seen so many wars, imposed in the name of peace. We have heard enough lies about the people’s struggle and their achievements of the past. We have watched the world transforming into a global village of miseries, poverty, bloodshed, hunger and oppression. Now, the masses, all over the world, seem to realize the root cause of all the miseries: exploitation of man’s labour by man. Capitalism is failing. The world is changing!

It is a historical moment for us. The advocates of free-market economy are shaken by the series of protests that, starting from the New York City, have captured the hundreds of cities all over the world. These protests represent the awakening class-consciousness   of the masses that has culminated in the Occupy Wall Street Movement. These occupy activists have gathered to change the existing economic inequality of the system. They have always been taught that Marx was wrong in his critique of capitalism. They have realized the empirical evidence of the opposite.

Karl Marx, in the 19th century, had explained the inevitable presence of exploitation as an essential ingredient of capitalism. The German social scientist had proved that, in any society, the exploitation takes place when a few people own all the means of production and the majority, who doesn’t own anything, is bound to sell its labour to that minor class which accumulates private property. While, the state functions to protect that unequal distribution of wealth, assuring the widening class-differences.

The NY Post has referred the Occupy Movement as the New York’s ‘Marxist Epicenter’.  It has countered the myth, propagated by the media, that the occupy activists are a breed of bored, hippie-like folks who are doing some adventurism to seek attention. According to their report, the flags depicting revolutionary icons can be seen everywhere, showing their ideological commitment. Moreover, the ‘occupiers’ openly refer to each other as ‘comrade’, a term used by the left-wing worldwide, meaning ‘friend’ or ‘ally’. Their literature openly declares Socialism as a cure of all the prevailing problems.

At this historical moment, the Pakistan’s left is reorganizing like their counterparts of the West. We have a long history of youth’s struggle against the dark military regimes. From the Democratic Students Federation’s front ‘Red Guards’ to the Lawyer’s movement, our young activists have always stood for the people’s cause. Continuing their legacy of internationalism, Pakistan’s left parties have decided to start anti-capitalist camps, initiating from Lahore, not only for the solidarity for the Occupy Wall Street movement, but also as a continuous struggle to change our indigenous problems. We need to realize the importance of this revolutionary wave. We need to be in the flow. For how long the people will continue to suffer and dream for a better society? The time has come to make those dreams an existing reality. The time has come to reject all the confused liberators. The time has come to chant, ‘Occupy Islamabad!’

But, unfortunately, the state is not the only thing to occupy, in our case. We are aware that Pakistan suffers from multiple complex issues. We don’t only have the corrupt feudal political families and their huge palaces to occupy; we have millions of minds to occupy which are burning in the flames of religious fanaticism. We have to occupy the rising sectarian mindset of the people. We have to occupy the religious rage to assure peaceful coexistence of everyone. We have to occupy the narcissistic prism and replace it with rationality and realism. We have to occupy the filth of the society and the filth within. And we, the people, can do that! We can do that because we are the 99 percent!


Ammar Aziz

An independent filmmaker and political activist who teaches film theory at NCA. He blogs at ammar-aziz.blogspot.com and tweets at @ammar_aziz

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • Al Dente

    Occupy Couple Collect Cash, Then Crap on Comrades. SHOCKING:

  • Dr Killjoy

    “These occupy activists have gathered to change the existing economic inequality of the system. They have always been taught that Marx was wrong in his critique of capitalism. They have realized the empirical evidence of the opposite.”

    …seriously? How naive IS this writer? Somebody needs to invent a time machine and send him back to 1917 Russia.Recommend

  • http://www.marxists.com.pk Comrade

    An excellent and timely piece!

    @Dr whatever

    Somebody should invent a time machine and send you back in the stone ages if you are failzing to realize the actual reason of these protests.. Recommend

  • http://NewYork Falcon

    Let me say your and all ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement people’s goals are noble. However, your solutions don’t necessarily lie in socialism. Capitalism has its bads but it also has its goods. Capitalism has been able to raise more than 300 million people from lower class to middle class in last few decades which is unprecedented development in recent human history. However, it does have its limitations and the model certainly needs to be fine-tuned. If socialism was the panacea for all human misery, Russia and China would be heavens on earth. Truth is we need mixture of both, as is the case in some European countries. Recommend

  • Ali Tanoli,

    The reason behind these meses is all about poverty and injustice for example if u working
    some good job making 100 thousand $ a year and get pink slip next day or just get massage dont come tommarow u are fired and you have bills due next week you will
    have to pay morgage you due your bank loan due, your kids going to some private catholic
    school there feeses are due then your wife credit card and car monthly payment i think
    you gonna see stars during bright day light well come to creadit capitilism…Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    Oh, please! Stop!

    Stop conceiving the OWS movement as some kind of a marxist revolution under-way, because it’s not. These men and women parading around with their corporate-made clothes, corporate-made cell phones and corporate-made video cameras are not trying to overthrow the corporations!

    There’s fighting against the thieves of Wall St. who stole their money. It is not, in totality, an anti-capitalism movement even though some of the protesters are against capitalism.Recommend

  • B

    I urge you to read accurate depictions of what happened in the Soviet Union. For a start, read Milan Kundera’s ‘The Joke.’ The term ‘comrade’ that you use so eagerly is full of negative connotations. This sort of ‘Socialism’ is not socialist in any sense, it’s ‘Communist.’ And Communism is nothing but collective tyranny. Recommend

  • pinky

    AaaaalLLLaaaa! @ We don’t only have the corrupt feudal political families and their huge palaces to occupy; we have millions of minds to occupy which are burning in the flames of religious fanaticism.

  • sadhana

    Just one q – how many domestic servants does author have?Recommend

  • http://natashasuleman.wordpress.com Natasha


  • madiha

    You are absolutely right on principle but what you’re espousing and what people on Wallstreet are espousing is near impossible to achieve. Why? Because these recent protests have badly exposed the so called champions of human rights and made it clear that its not just the Republicans and the Tea Party that are a problem in the US, the Democrats and liberals are equally in bed with the corrupt corporations. New York City is the bastion of liberals and the left-wing in US, and yet there has hardly been any coverage of the protests in the New York Times. These people have unfortunately been written off as hippies by the media, and I doubt any politician will take on the the powerful financial corporations with elections so close.Recommend

  • The Truth

    99%? My son, you are the 1%, or maybe even less…Recommend

  • Anthony Permal

    @Ali Tanoli,:

    Honestly, do you even understand what you yourself type?Recommend

  • Awais Khan

    Yes I agree that if we have to occupy something, it is the perception of the people who are under the extremist influence.Recommend

  • http://www.laal.com.pk Saira

    @Sadhna & @The Truth

    Having assumptions about someone based on your preconceived notions is SO 19th century,.
    You guys need to verify the factual scenario before commenting like this. I know the author personally and he is a dedicated worker of the socialist movement in the country, a real working-class intellectual.
    Besides that, what gives YOU guys a right about judging anyone like that? What have YOU guys done about anything so far? If you can’t support a cause, stop insulting the core of that cause atleast.

    @ all other opponents of socialism

    We can sense a feeling of defeat when you try to justify capitalism by talking about the past, the Soviet Union, etc. :) Recommend

  • Abdul Rehman Gilani

    Why not replace capitalism with one of Islamic banking and economy! As already communism is dead, and its godless secular ideologues are busy crying.


  • http://www.europe-solidaire.org/ Pierre Rousset

    This brilliant piece is now Online on ESSFG:


    Pierre RoussetRecommend

  • yousaf

    “History repeats itself”I heard these words often but it does it so early,I was not aware of.While reading the article I sort of went into a stance as if soemeone had put me in a time machine and set the clock at 1970 before switching the button to on position,what I saw was the same world,same arguements,same discussions rather every thing was similar exept the fact that U.S.S.R was live and kicking and china was on a harsher tone towards socialism,keeping her from taking-off economically.I found next that there were two schools of thought,the right and the left,no one was giving any thought to formulate an economic model that would fit in Pakistan”s socio-political and economic mindset.Suddenly light went out and the time-machine brought me back to 2011,where I found just 3 things that were changed,U.S.S.R was now Russia,China had eased some of her socialistic views to enable her to economically take-off. Pakistan was going downhill but there was no one in sight to undo the circumstances. Recommend

  • Ali Tanoli,

    @Anthony permal,
    Truth and nothing else but truth. and its hurt some time little bit.Recommend

  • http://www.chingaree.com Imran Kamyana

    Its time for Socialism! Capitalism has been expired!
    Workers and Youth forward towards World Socialist Revolution!Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    @All those free marketers above

    “There are none so blind as those who will not see”

    Guys you need to get a life and study ABC of economy and Marx’s Theory of Capitalist crisis before repeating old ‘gardan’ of “Soviet Tyranny”. It is only Marxist theory that can explain inherent contradictions and limitations of Capitalism and not those confused bourgeoisie “economists” you are taught at school and universities. Capitalism like many other socio-economic systems in the past (Slavery, Feudalism, Asiatic Despotism etc) has served its term long ago. Now it is not more than a dead body, rotting and causing some ‘real problems’ on world scale for at least last 100 years or so.

    The wealth exists within society to feed and clothe every man, woman and child and to offer affordable housing and meaningful work to all able bodied people. It is the task of the working class to take this wealth out of the hands of the minority who currently own it and to use it to satisfy the needs of all.

    Its only Socialist Planned Economy under Workers’ Democratic Control that can take human society forward towards peace, harmony, stability and abundance.

    So stop repeating the old mantra of tyranny in Soviet Union under Stalin (yes it was Stalinism, a degeneration of Workers’ State and caricature of Socialism) and think out of the box. Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    There is some material explaining how Marxism is reverent today more than ever:

    http://www.marxist.com/index.php?option=comgooglesearchcse&n=30&cx=000888792376860785681%3Ase0tky2ydii&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=The+Relevance+of+Marxism+Today&hl=en#902 Recommend

  • Yasir Mehmood

    With all due respect the author writes on things remotely related to Pakistan and tries to link non issues with issuesRecommend

  • mangoman

    being against capitalism doesnt mean being communist. writer must come out of his nostelgia of USSR, he doesnt even know what communism is like.,Recommend

  • csmann

    @Abdul Rehman Gilani:

    do u honestly believe what that person is saying;although nothing like this happened,even if this was to happen,west is so allergic to islam that it would have rejected the suggestion;and again the tendency of pakistanis to drag allah and rasool into every little thing;saramaayadari will stay with its ups and downs;just need to be constantly fine tuned;marxism has failed;islamic banking has no world-wide takersRecommend

  • yousaf

    @Imaran:-Just wait till you cross 35 and have had some practical experience of life ,your thoughts will normalise and the harsh realities of the world will themselves make you change your views.As I assume you are yet under 35 and have no ulterior political motives just warm blood of youth,it will be futile to argue as you wont listen to reason.I and others of my age too used to not listen to reason when we were young and books were our only source of knowledge which are simply put monologues as you cant talk back to them.To cut the long story short,we may like it or not capitalism in its one form or other has existed since the dawn of mankind,communism propounded by Marx is only a utopian concept which has often been implemented in letter and spirit since time unknown but always failed,(U.S.S.R,the word you are allergic to is its most recent example) .It is very sad but it is true. Recommend

  • http://www.laal.com.pk Saira


    would you please like to enlighten us with your knowledge of communism?


    Marxism is a philosophy; just like existentialism, nihilism, idealism, humanism, etc are philosophical schools. A philosophical school doesn’t “fail” (or pass for that matter :p) as you claim. Marxism as a political system has collapsed in a few countries, true, but Marxism as a philosophy is still relevant as it is a scientific critique of capitalism and it will continue to haunt the admirers of capitalism as long as capitalism exists. Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    For centuries, capitalism has been operating within our midst (in some form). Not only has it been working, but the middle-class has thrived under this system. Till the 80’s, America had a strong middle-class, and the hate was marxism was perhaps even greater than what there is now.

    But come 2006, these Marx fans explode out into the world branding every financial crisis on Earth on the “evils of capitalism”. Don’t you find it a little suspicious that the economic chaos so closely followed the over-exuberant banking deregulations?

    Yes, the market needs to be free, but the government still needs to regulate the system to maintain a level playing field for all entrepreneurs. When that went to crap, so did the economy. These ridiculous calls to end capitalism is like calling to shut down the healthcare industry because of an outbreak of hospital-acquired infections!Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    Your knowledge about the world is self evident from the creationist phrases like //capitalism in its one form or other has existed since the dawn of mankind// and so is the “reason” you are advocating. This is religion at work my dear and not the “reason”. You know another old mantra “humans are created this way greedy & imperfect by a ‘perfect’ and ‘not so greedy’ creator”. One needs to read books like “Origins of Family, Private Ownership & State”to get out of this misconception.

    And the world “Communism” you keeps on using about the regimes is USSR & Eastern Europe is another example of your secret knowledge about Marxism (which btw comes only at the age of 35). You need to get out of this amateur concept of Socialism & Communism as well only through some more study.

    Brother if this system has forced you compromise with it as your once hot blood cools down with growing age, there is nothing wrong with Marxism, but your knowledge of it and its founding stones i.e Dialectical Materialism & Economy. There is some problem with your morality and will power as well.

    By your “reason of Age 35” you are in fact advocating another stupid philosophy that prevails mostly in third world societies like Pakistan and that is //More age mean more wisdom//. I simply just don’t agree with it, I know many a people who got more frustrated, stupid and greedy as they grew older.
    I would like to clarify another misconception of yours my dear about my “hot blood”. I am 25 now, a Mechanical Engineer by education and its been five years working more or less as a professional revolutionary. So there is something more than “hot blood” behind my devotion to the cause of Marxism.

    So I would like once again all those “capitalists” to think out of the box and at least have a look what Marxism is and its critique of Capitalism. I would like to share some material as well:

    Relevance of Marxism Today:

    What Capitalist Crisis actually is:

    Our Websites:

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    Call me “materialistic”, but nothing drives creativity and growth better than the promise of money.

    Socialism is a dandy system for an ideal world full of ambition-less, mindless drones who are content with making invaluable creative contributions to the nation with little more than a pat on the head.

    As for me, I did not drag my butt through 5 years of med school and several more for specialization, so I could make the same amount of cash as the junior nurse (who in fact, would be in a much better place having several years head-start).Recommend

  • yousaf

    @Imran Kamyana:-Many thanks for having used such nice words for me you further suggested that I should read more so that I gain knoledge of things of which I am quite ignorant.I thank you for having told me of your age because it made much easier for me to conclude the things better and quick.I,to inform you,quit reading about isms at about the time you were born i.e.25 years back because I found that they did not serve any purpose for my country and as every thing revolves around the economy and only economy we should do something to uplift the economic condition of Pakistan.I am 70 and this means that we can not interact ideology-wise.The age difference is very vast.Nowhere I mentioned the word wisdom,but experience,yes,I hold that a boy of 10 can be called wise but not experienced as experience comes only with age.You have the right to disagree!You are a young and knowledgeable person and I too have one suggestion to make if you may.Forget about the world philosophies and think only how you can improve the condition of this wretched land called Pakistan,although you are an engineer yet try to formulate an economic model that may suit the mindset of people here,I know you can.Being so devoted to a cause which is foriegn,do something for Pakistan in accordance with the prevailing conditions in our country.Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    Mr Liberal PK you very comment shows you have second hand knowledge of Socialism and literally no knowledge about Capitalism. Your problem is that you are confusing creativity with greed on one hand and incentive for you means money only. The owner of private hospital where you will be showing “miracles” of creativity will make millions out of your ‘creativity’ while paying you in thousands. It would be the labor of doctors, nurses, sweepers and everyone else working in the hospital that ‘creative guy’ will be exploiting while sitting in air conditioned room and doing ‘hard work’ managing the business. Same goes for an engineer, scientist, ordinary worker, peasant and every proletariat. Go and search what Surplus Value is which is source of all the profit and where does it come from. We want all this surplus to be owned by the class which creates it and not the capitalists who take it just because private ownership of means of production.

    And who told you we Socialists will come with sharp knives to trim everything to “equality” at the very first day? This is just nonsense.

    You need to understand Socialism beyond the amateur perception of just “equality”. When we talk about Socialism most of the people can’t perceive it beyond the psychology of shortage and instability which are purely the attributes of a capitalist society. We want to build socialism in abundance for god sake which is possible in a planned economy. We want a more colorful, diverse society with suitable conditions for everyone to express his/her creativity.

    Socialism means planned economy and ownership of means of production under workers democratic control where everyone will contribute according to his abilities and receives according to his needs.

    Also one needs to have a look at the enormous growth that USSR made under planned economy in 3 decades which capitalism can’t achieve in 300 years. Soviet Union produced more doctors, engineers and scientist than rest of the capitalist world combined. Now please don’t tell me it was Stalin putting a gun on everyone’s head to work or otherwise to get shot lol. I am a Trotskyte by the way and have certain reservation and objections about what I see bureaucratic degeneration of USSR under Stalinism and theory of Socialism in one country. That is a whole new debate anyway.

    Here is another video which would clear a lot of misconceptions of many:

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK


    I personally don’t like capitalism. If anything, I favour social capitalism. But answer me this:

    In a socialist set-up, what incentive does the system offer me to go above and beyond the effort I need to to fulfil my basic living requirements, become an ultra-specialist, and open up my own medical establishment providing quality services to my fellow citizens..

    ..when at the end, I’ll be walking home with a paycheck no bigger than what the nurse, janitor and cook? (Correct me if I’m wrong, since I’m so deplorably, unforgivably ignorant of how socialism and capitalism works. If I actually do get paid more, then the system’s okay with me.)

    Also, could you provide me a reliable reference for your claim that communist states produced more skilled workers than the capitalist world? (And I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if Stalin DID put a gun to their heads and told them to be doctors).Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    @Liberal PK

    Brother to cut things short the answer to you question is Yes! Even under Socialism there would be incentives to motivate people. What about less working hours for those performing tough jobs or activity involving brain for instance? Unlimited resources for research and development? Air tickets and accommodation to spend holidays at some good place? And the list can go on and on! BUT! There would be some “luxuries” for everyone, for example:
    One would not need to worry about his/her education, career, job/employment, housing, utility bills, health care etc. Its purely state’s responsibility now. This was the case in Soviet Union & Eastern Europe until 1970s and am saying it without any exaggeration. After the collapse of 1991 it was quite “shocking” for ordinary of Russian & Central Asians to know that they will have to pay for education and medical treatment and that there are things like utility bills & house rents as well. Many still didn’t know that there is something like “bargaining” while shopping.
    There are some articles that deals with you question to some extent:


    Answers to some basic questions:

    Coming to the Economic Growth under Planned Economy.
    Leave reference aside for a movement. Imagine a war torn country having 4 million death due to starvation malnutrition in 1917 sending first satellite, first man, first woman, in space few decades later. Largest production of steel and largest numbers of scientists, doctors and engineers in world.Pick any discipline and you will find contribution of Soviets in it.
    Becoming an industrial country with 2 five years plans. And once again being destroyed by WW2 emerging as a Super Power just by one five year plan. Well economic miracles of planned economy are countless and I can go on and on.

    Now coming to references:

    1: Wikipedia article on Soviet economy is quite reliable and full of citations:

    2: Estimation of Soviet GDP by CIA:

    3: A lot of material issued by IMF:

    So my brother there is no question about economic growth under planned economy, no one can deny it, no one ever did. But “people” when fail in this debate they simply switch to the old mantra of “human nature” and some hopeless stupids try to find refuge in religion. Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    You can check notable firsts in Space Technology for a case study:

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    Soviet firsts in case of space technology can be noted for instance:

    But again I would say we have certain reservations about the nature of USSR and consider it a ‘degenerated workers state’ with economic planning in the hands of few bureaucrats which caused massive wastage of production, irregularities and unevenness in many cases. This is a whole separate and wide topic however, as I said earlier.Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    You didn’t answer my question. I’m not denying the perks of socialism that you mentioned. What I’m asking is that what would motivate a person like me to go the extra mile to become a doctor, when the janitor at my hospital is enjoying the same salary and perks that I do? Why not save myself the headache and simply grab a broom?

    By the way, these perks are not restricted to socialism. Sweden was an impoverished state back in the 1870’s, but its conditions improved substantially with the introduction of capitalism. It is now a welfare state that offers the same “luxuries” to its people that you believe are only possible in a socialist set-up.

    Provided that Sweden uses the system of social capitalism, it is still far from socialism. It wasn’t until the unprecedented banking deregulations in the country that the economic conditions began to decline rapidly. The same mistake was repeated in the United States, and the proof is in the pudding. This chaos cannot be pinned on capitalism, because it makes no sense to suggest that a system that has allowed these nations (including the middle and low-income classes) to thrive for decades, has suddenly become inefficient.Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    Brother if it was only money that motivated you to become a doctor then sorry to say you are not a doctor but a businessman, and we don’t need “doctors” like you in society. It would be better to not to have one if one wants to make money out of a helpless patient. If, however, you need a society where you could excel in your profession without worrying about your economic conditions or future of your kids or from where money is going to come when you will be old and retired, you are welcome to Socialism. Or to put it in another way if money means comfort and stability to you, there would be plenty of it in a Socialist society.

    The remaining of your questions require a little bit study of economy, so it would be better if you keep an eye on the events taking place in advanced countries after crash of 2008 where that “middle class” is heading towards now, like every time capitalism gets trapped in inherent self contradictions. It doesn’t happen “all of a sudden” my brother, but after certain time period, which we call economic cycle. And this economic cycle has been contracted from decades to few years as contradictions of the capitalism get sharper. At the end of this cycle when recession hits the masses, capitalism devours the same “prosperity” it granted few years back, and middle class is first prey to it. Two World Wars and numerous other wars and global conflicts were/are meant to “restart” the system which keep on getting trapped into its limitations as well, by artificially stimulating the economy using war economy.

    I am sure that you didn’t watch any of the videos I posted above, as your questions suggest.
    So brother if would be useless to repeat same questions of same genre again and again. Do some study yourself. Have an idea what is going on in Europe, especially Greece, Spain and Italy, where is Euro Zone heading, also try to find statistics of unemployment, poverty, people without health insurance and housing etc. Try to have an idea about the hunger and poverty in the world over all. So seem to be so indifferent about the world around you.

    One more thing I would like to add is that there is no such thing as “social capitalism”, its Social Democracy that you are trying to refer which stands for Keynesian Economic Model, adopted after second world war, resulted in Post War economic boom and collapsed in the recession of 1974 as things got saturated. Whole idea of Social Democracy was to humanize capitalism by using demand side economics and state interventions which failed miserably after the adoption of Thetherism and Reagonomics, and these days Social Democratic parties are biggest flag barriers of austerity measure and biggest ‘victims’ of the hatred and wrath of the masses. Human face of capitalism serving the 99% is impossible by the nature of the system. In Capitalism, Capital & Capitalist rules my brother and not the working class.

    I would like to suggest some more videos my brother which I am sure you would not watch :)

    Also, its a request that you at least watch those videos about capitalist crisis I mentioned above.Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    About your question of “mistake of deregulations”
    Brother deregulations are not mistake, they are done intentially to postpone the economic crash. They are not the disease but the symptom.
    Its crisis of overproduction my dear, this is how it goes!

    1:Enough commodities in market because of advancement of technology and efficient production
    2: Efficient production means less jobs. Let the machines do the work and fire the ‘extra labor’ to save money and raise rate of profits.
    3:No money in pockets of working class (the 99%) to buy, due to less wages, high rate of profits and unemployment.
    4:No sale means no profit, stagnant rate of profits so minor crisis.

    The ‘Solution”:
    5:To lend the same wealth to working class it created on interest through banks and artificially keep the economy going


    Kab tak?


    What happens next is something like 1929 or 2008, which creates even more contradictions and this time symptoms become diseases in their selves shifting the crisis from economic to political and social. Bank defaults now become Sovereign default as is the case with Ice Land, Greece and in future Spain, Italy and UK and many more.

    So instead of employing more people by reducing working hours, or increasing wages as more surplus is created by modern technology (as would be the case in Socialism) everything turns into its opposite under capitalism.

    Study more !Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran Kamyana

    @lonely liberal
    Since you are a doctor I have here something of your interest:

    Its a clip from Michael Moore’s documentary Sicko. I would recommend that you watch the whole thing. I would also recommend to find anyone from Kashmir who had come across Cuban doctors when they came here in the aftermath of 2005 earthquake and ask “how were they?”. Also I would like you to have some study of Healthcare system of USSR.Recommend

  • abhi


    Your point 2 is valid
    “2: Efficient production means less jobs. Let the machines do the work and fire the ‘extra labor’ to save money and raise rate of profits.”

    And it will result in actually non existence of working class. There will be no working class in future all manual job can be done by machines. Even sophesticated jobs like surgery can be done by robots. So the question remains how to distribute the wealth. It is a big question and there is no answer. Marx will not help you out as the very basis of working class vs capitalist will not be existing. Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    Don’t mistake profit motive for greed. What socialists fail to conceive is that we don’t live in a world of flawless saints who are willing to be give a creative output for nothing more than a gold sticker on their forehead.

    If capitalism is unfair for an unskilled labourer, socialism fails to do justice to the creative thinkers and the highly skilled class of workers, believing that the person who mops the floor in a Microsoft building is as important as the innovator who created the software, thus opening up thousands of new jobs including the one that the janitor now holds. Even though the janitor is an important part of the industry, there are millions capable of replacing him. But how many can replace Bill Gates? And how do we reward his unique contribution? We don’t.

    Call it unethical, but money is the most powerful motivator for growth, development and education. Unless, of course, the government puts a gun to your head and orders you what to do, in which case the system hardly sounds any more ethical than capitalism.

    On the other hand, your point about economic cycles makes sense. And I’ve already watched Sicko, good film.

    I’m well aware of the problems of capitalism. About the crisis of overproduction, and the growing wealth disparity. But I just don’t see socialism is a worthy contender to this system. If anything, it is social capitalism that should be tried.Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran

    Brother don’t cherry pick my points. With point 2 inevitably come the later ones as well under the confines of capitalism.

    //And it will result in actually non existence of working class//
    No working class means no existence of capitalist class as well, which means the classless society. Here you are repeating the Marxist argument under the confines of capitalism.
    Put it in philosophical way “where everyone belongs to same class no one belongs to any class”, as Lenin put it “Under Socialism everyone will be bureaucrat hence no one would be a bureaucrat”. But under the relations of Capitalism (i.e. Private ownership of means of production) the very technology that can create a classless society with abundance, results in contradictions resulting in misery, shortage and sharper class divisions.

    The whole phenomena of Market is becoming obsolete along with capitalism, as technology can create abundance but the economic relations under capitalism can’t accommodate that abundance.

    Here you are confusing the whole concept of labor with ‘physical labor’ only. There is another kind of labor which actually elevate us from other animals and that is mental labor i.e. activity of brain and to think & create. This is what Marx proposed that under current technology (Marxist term is Development of Means of Production) humanity can get rid of physical labor to much extent and do what it is supposed to do i.e. Creation, innovation and exploration of universe around it, instead of getting trapped in the petty issues of bread. In other words abundance makes the whole concept of class society obsolete.

    //Marx will not help you out as the very basis of working class vs capitalist will not be existing//

    Lol! Brother here you are saying something like this unintentially “Since Marxism is valid so Marx is wrong!” Your very statement is in fact the one of the very basic conclusions of Marxism. Means of Production & Technology is at a stage where classes are no more required in society, and existing social relations are creating problems.
    Even the most serious bourgeoisie analysts don’t deny validity of Marxism on the basis you are doing. Here I would recommend you to study Marxist Theory of Surplus Value to get clear on this topic at the least or study Das Kapital for details.

    To cut things short:
    In a society where machine can do most of the work and abundance is possible, why not produce things in order to satisfy needs of humanity instead of profits of few individuals?. Why not cut the working hours by employing more people instead of firing the existing ones and causing unemployment, poverty and misery? Why means of productions created by humanity as a whole be in possessions of a few rather than whole society? Why not focus on the threats faced by humanity as a whole like incurable diseases, natural disasters, dangers from outer space etc ? Why not explore the marvelous universe around us collectively instead of pulling each other legs following the pathetic philosophy of competition and devaluing fellow human beings like commodities and shares in stock markets?Recommend

  • http://www.marxist.com Imran

    ‎” the bourgeoisie is hell-bent on turning the clock back to the 1800s in order to maintain and increase profitability.” !


  • http://shemrez.wordpress.com/ Shemrez Nauman Afzal

    So… is anyone still occupying anything in Pakistan…?
    LOL :PRecommend