When the pot met the kettle: How Modi made India a lackey to the US

Published: July 4, 2017
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India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi hugs President Trump as they give joint statements in the Rose Garden of the White House. PHOTO: REUTERS

Finally, the pot and the kettle met, shook hands and hugged each other. Analysts world over are still debating possible gains and losses of a meeting between two unique characters of world politics today – Donald Trump and Narendra Modi.

They represent two very vibrant democracies of the world but they are not recognised as the real faces of their multi-cultural nations. They are treated more as aberrations of history, a mistake of time rather than a true face of the era and people they got their mandate from.

They both defy the norms of Greek and Shakespearean tragedy. Their past sins and acts are not holding them back from achieving success; they are challenging goodness at every stage and are still getting away with it. They survive by selling their villainy. Poetic justice does not visit them.

Therefore, the individuals who are defined more by their negativity – the pot and the kettle – would receive more than the usual attention. They received this attention recently in Washington when Modi met his own image. Majority of the analysts in India kept the focus on the outcome of the talks and what headway the two democracies could make on the bilateral front.

India sees a major gain in the US’s decision to declare the Pakistan-based Hizbul Mujahideen chief, Syed Salahuddin, as a “global terrorist”. One needs to ask how such a declaration alters the ground realities in South Asia, how will it improve the relationship between New Delhi and Islamabad, and how will it solve the Kashmir issue? Domestic analysts in India don’t want to debate over how Washington is indirectly interfering in the bilateral relationship between the two South Asian neighbours.

The hard truth of the meeting was the decision to go in for a comprehensive review of trade relations between the two countries. Currently, the balance of trade is in India’s favour and the review will, in fact, put great pressure on India to open its market for American goods, which will not be easy. The businessman president of the US believes more in transactional relations than emotional bonding.

New Delhi is already a strategic partner of the US in South Asia and Modi is willing to play Washington’s game in the region. The overwhelming argument in India is that Modi’s embrace of the US, at the cost of its foreign policy autonomy, is the best thing to happen to India in the last 70 years. This narrative dominates popular discourse so much that there is hardly any space for questioning such an abject surrender of our strategic autonomy.

Our previous Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh signed a nuclear deal with the US and exalted India’s position as a strategic partner of Washington without surrendering the strategic autonomy despite continuous pressure from the US.

Modi, who won a historic mandate, made India a lackey to the US foreign policy.

The repercussion is for all to see. China, an inalienable neighbour, sees the entente between the two largest democracies as an attempt to contain its growing ambition. Pakistan, despite its inhibitions, has openly aligned with Beijing and become an important part of the One Belt and One Road (OBOR) policy. Bhutan, which has survived so far under India’s sphere of influence, wants to have its own say in dealing with foreign countries. India’s relationship with Islamabad is at an all-time low and the strategic bonding between New Delhi and Washington has made South Asia more fragile than before.

At a time when the US’s allies, like Germany and France, are talking about charting their own course in history, New Delhi’s bond with the US is anachronistic. It is investing in a leader which the developed West wants to keep at an arm’s length.

Compare the body language of Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron towards Trump with Modi’s. You will realise how narrow the mental canvas of the Indian leader is. German and French leaders rejected Trump’s hatred towards Muslims; they refused to endorse the American president’s political insularity.

Modi can’t do that because he is the mirror image of Trump in many ways. They both share a common hatred towards minorities, they abhor questioning and democratic dissent, and they are votaries of narrow nationalism. Moreover, they represent the political ethos of exclusion and nurture a deep hatred towards the media.

At a time when the world is passing through an extremely difficult phase of history, the leaders of the two biggest democracies are highly divisive figures. They can’t talk of leading the world out of the present chaos; they, ironically, represent chaos. The world cannot look towards them for leadership at all.

Immediately after independence, India became the voice of developing countries when the world was passing through a new wave of uncertainties. This happened because of the leadership of India’s first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru. Today, India’s leadership is under a man who stands for divisiveness and Hindu extremism and it cannot be a voice at the international fora. The same applies to Trump.

The irony is that the US-India comraderies cannot stabilise the world, it cannot play a positive role in calming down the domestic and international chaos. It cannot act as a moral force in bringing sanity in South Asia.

sanjay.kumar

Sanjay Kumar

The author is a New Delhi based journalist covering South Asian and international politics.

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • wb

    Hate turns a person insane. And an insane person does not know when he’s ranting and when he’s being eloquent. Some are always ranting.Recommend

  • SHJ

    These freelance writers (unknown entities) will always find their column in top Pakistani websites.Recommend

  • Rohan

    I thought this was written by some mullah from KarachiRecommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Overkill on the language. Modi has done this will all leaders.
    I think this Author wrote the heading of the article and then cobbled up a few sentences for the article.
    This is tabloid journalism.Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    You are asking for bashing from your fellow Indians as it’s hard for them to swallow the truth – truth of the 21st century.Recommend

  • Lalit

    Hahahaha…..author looks visibly shaken by the developing scenario including declaration of one Mr Salauddin as a designated global terrorist .so painful
    Ahh…Recommend

  • Lalit

    Where is his Siamese twin Mr Sapan Kapoor now a days ? Not heard from him lately….Recommend

  • Suchi Baat

    Democracy is a farce in these two self appointed champions calling them world largest democracies. Oppressing people in Kashmir, nagaland, khalistan and so many other communities struggling for freedom from India. And US where election results are manipulated. And outside , US support to tyrant regimes in Middle East and else where. Do you call this democracy ?Recommend

  • Brijesh

    Lackey ??? Lackey is someone who gets paid to do a bid for someone. In this case, its pretty clear US did Indian bid after getting money which is well spent because India will get drones and guess what, these defense drones would be converted attacking ones with Israel’s help. By the way let me tell you who is the lackey in south Asia. It is a country which jumped into Afghan affairs twice to please US and now doing bidding for communist China which does not even allow fasting in month of Ramzan. For someone who is reporting the world affairs, I say you lack the understanding. I think you should try those free JNU courses that are recently started.Recommend

  • allaisa

    When Congress ruled they had the Government for Italy of Italy and by Italy. Today they have a Government under Modi for Indians, by Indians and of Indians. Obviously the writer misses Coalgates, 2G scams and money in foreign accounts.Recommend

  • Patwari

    The esteemed author has hit it out of the ball park. It’s a sixer, The ball going
    to land on Yogi Adityanath’s…Dharmsala? Yashram? Potala? In Utter Pradesh.
    And here they come. The RSS/Shiv Sena/Vishwa Hindu Parishad keyboard soldiers.
    Gnashing their teeth. Doing the saber dance, cultish worship of Lord Modi.
    Even Sadhvi Prachi weeping and moaning, overcome by her emotions for her Lord Naga,…also known by various other names such as the Butcher of Gujrat, Jashodeben Chimenlal’s Husband, Victor of Ayodha, Samjotha Express Destroyer, Shiva’s Left Hand, Vishnu’s Carpet, Lakshmi’s Chappal and of course Chaiwala.Recommend

  • Pan Mat

    It is easy being an anarchist, all you have to do is find few chinks in the armor. What is the solution or way forward? Author just wants to paint a grim picture and alluding as if there are Golden options lying on a platter without even referencing any of them.

    There are always more perspectives, ask any other country in South East Asia about Chinese hegemony and you might change your opinion about China too!Recommend

  • CHARLIE HEBDO

    Pakistan was biting the hand of United States, that was feeding.Recommend

  • wb

    ” The overwhelming argument in India is that Modi’s embrace of the US, at the cost of its foreign policy autonomy, is the best thing to happen to India in the last 70 years. ”

    So, a few Jihadists become overwhelming in India? This is what the Islamist media in India and the world did for decades. And today, they stand decimated all over the world. Islamists can never win.Recommend

  • Manoj Mishra

    The author seems to be a congressi and thus shedding crocodile tears …..I individually oppose may of the domestic policies and actions of BJP govt , but as far as International policies are concerned , Modi has taken India to a different level and therefore the article is written in a bad taste by a biased authorRecommend

  • HS

    Due to such nonsense only most of the countries doesn’t have Freedom of Speech.

    Here are my observations
    is he from JNU?
    Many want to make his/her name in competitive field that is Journalism by writing some absurd things, These eagles are everywhere.
    In democracy a leader is selected by citizens for 5 years & his performance is evaluated after 5 years. so for 5 years what he does will be based on his philosophies which have helped him win the last election. Till then u may continue your writing to catch attentions. Modi is not going to be influenced by you.Recommend

  • Milind A

    ET is host to all the invalids from India. Nobody knows this author in India, however in Pakistan he’s a celebrity..Recommend

  • black_kettle1

    Why are there so many people commenting on a Pakistani newspaper site?Recommend

  • numbersnumbers

    Note how the Author carefully avoids mentioning all the CHAOS Pakistan has inflicted on the region via its terrorist proxies!
    As for “hatred of Minorities”, Pakistan would be a podium finisher if such conduct were an Olympic Event, evidenced by the severe reduction of religious minorities in Pakistan since partition!Recommend

  • Purna Tripathy

    the author is such a knowledgeable person. why dont you keep these gems to yourself instead of making a fool of yourself.Recommend

  • pppj

    Mr. Kumar is clearly passionate (though not necessarily accurate) about the Trump-Modi bonhomie. Please tell me how Modi can be termed anti-Muslim when he has visited several Middle-eastern countries and had the prime minister of the UAE as his Republic Day Chief Guest (an honor India reserves for its closest partners). What about the smashing victory clinched by the BJP in the Uttar Pradesh election of 2017 where it even won in the Muslim stronghold of Deoband? Further more, how is India a US lackey when it has only signed the LEMOA but not the CISMOA and BECA defense agreements despite consistent American pressure? Also, India has refused to admit Australia into the Malabar exercises despite American and Australian pressure. If India were a US puppet, would it have joined the SCO or the BRICS? Why did India not send a delegation to the Belt and Road conference like the US did? Indian policy is far more nuanced than the author cares to understand.

    And why should India not tilt towards the US assuming (charitably) that the author has a point? Has the author read the bellicose rhetoric deployed by Chinese blowhards like the Global Times that denigrate Indian democracy and constantly employ military threats on issues ranging from the Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh to the current imbroglio near Bhutan? In contrast, even the foul-mouthed Trump was very gentle when he asked Modi to address the trade deficit.The author should learn to think in a more balanced fashion and not let his ideology cloud his judgement.Recommend

  • Ahmar

    This is a top Pakistani website?Recommend

  • Ahmar

    So hugs only and no kissing?

    Look at Modi. He seems so excited. Almost hugging Trump like an older brother he lost at kumbh mela.

    Trump’s expression is like, I need to take a bath after this and get these clothes dry cleaned.Recommend

  • wb

    We Hindus are intelligent people. So, we only talk in terms of FACTS and not TRUTH. Only idiots talk in terms of TRUTH. Because, any intelligent being knows that TRUTH does not exist in absolute. But, FACTS do exist in absolute.

    So, here are the FACTS: 1) Above article is garbage and reeks of bigotry and Islamist agenda.
    2) As I write this comment, 1000s of Hindus are being attacked, their houses/shops burnt in West Bengal by the followers of the religion of peace.
    3) And bigots like you or this writer will not write any blog condemning the attacks on Hindus by Islamists and also two rapes of Hindu girls that took place in West Bengal committed by Muslims.

    P.S. Understand this. I’ll always own you in any fair debate, because I’m an atheist Brahmin and you’re a Muslim.

    Now, that’s a TRUTH that can live in absolute and you can take home to your children.Recommend

  • wb

    “Esteemed author”? Hahahahah hahahahah. The esteemed author has neither won a Pulitzer nor a Noble or a gnanapeetha or Peabody or a Worth Bingham or a Gerald Loeb.

    Just because one writes bigoted blogs in one of the least read news paper of a failing state, he became esteemed?

    Why, Patwari, why? Why do you give me so many opportunities to own your hind side and humiliate you?

    Patwari, I’ll always defeat you. I’m an intellectually superior atheist Brahmin and you’re an inferior Muslim. You can never win in intellectual debates, dear.Recommend

  • Patwari

    A Brahmini to boot ?? Hmmm…suspicious…
    Rest assured whenever a hindu discusses his own
    place in the caste totem pole, he takes it up 7 notches.
    Doing reverse pedaling,.. that would Banarsi an Untouchable.
    Gosh darn!! Deepest sympathies ! Had no idea ! . So sorry. So sorry.
    See, you can claim to be a Dalit, they are slightly up….no?
    Recommend

  • Patwari

    Please, surely there are institutions in Hindustan
    that can help you? It’s common knowledge that
    medical care is free for the Bharati Indigenous and
    your Scheduled Class. You wrote you belong to one.
    Besides Lord Modi said so himself. After all you Hindustanis
    discovered plastic surgery 5,000 years ago. Right? So,…?
    If not, then seek a hakim. Be sure he is a Muslim. Because
    they are more knowledgeable and very civil,… per se.
    Surely there must be one in your village.
    May Rama bless you.Recommend

  • Sane

    No one request you to read a Pakistan website post or newspaper. You check how many cows slaughtered today.Recommend

  • Sane

    Tabloid comment by Indian commentatorRecommend

  • Sane

    Because kettle was not washedRecommend

  • wb

    As far as intellect goes, you’re untouchable to untouchables, my dearest. Because of your…you know…CULTure.Recommend

  • wb

    My dearest, you’re consumed by so much irrationality and hate, you just rant. Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    Now you know him by visiting the website which is not yours.Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    You reek of caste system n racism. Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Says a man who believes 9/11 is a Jewish conspiracy, ISIS are Hindus in disguise and what not.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    I understand Islam requires unquestioning and blind faith, but please have some perspective. Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Are you jealous? Recommend

  • numbersnumbers

    Hmm, as opposed to Pakistani efforts to bring peace to the region via its terrorist proxies meddling in neighboring countries affairs! HAHAHAHA!Recommend

  • Patwari

    Correction. ET is host to all the Hindustani cyber warriors/BJP/RSS/Shiv Sena
    Brigade and about a million hindu commentators who hate Muslims, Pakistan and
    Islam.Recommend

  • wb

    You reek of ignorance. Show me one line of racism in my comment. Or apologize.Recommend

  • wb

    Now we know him as a Nobody who is a Wannabe. And it’s not your website also, nor is it this blog writer’s.Recommend

  • wb

    My dearest Patwari, the non-Muslim world hates Muslims.
    And Muslims hate other Muslims.
    And most importantly, All Muslims hate Pakistan. Even Pakistanis hate Pakistan.Recommend

  • Ahmar

    Jealous of what? Being able to hug Trump?Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    Did I? Read carefully, never said it’s mine. You are getting frustrated now. But then it’s not India’s also. As for the writer, you can take him.Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    What about caste system? Hindu, Muslim, me the great, you the ignorant, what talk is that?Caste system gives rise to racism. BTW, Indians are the most ignorant nation in the world, the latest survey has revealed, so don’t take out your frustration upon me. There is no such thing as atheist Brahmin. When you call yourself Brahmin, there goes up in the air your atheism. Just by twisting words or talking fast,one does not become intelligent.Recommend

  • wb

    Read 100 times. I never said you said. Who’s frustrated now?Recommend

  • wb

    Caste is not a race. Islam is not a race. Brahmin is not a race. Atheism is not a race.

    Caste system and casteism are not even same, dear.
    And this nation of ignoramus has been to mars in the first attempt. Do the arithmetic or come to me

    I’m an atheist Brahmin. And I am a living, breathing being.
    Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    Then why are you saying ‘it’s not yours’? Why create an issue when there is none? Very strange, bringing issues n making mountain out of a mole like fighting women Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    ‘prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’ s own race is superior’ – dictionary definition. Replace race with religion and you become religious discriminationtor, biased, partial n prejudiced. SAME attributes as being racist. So how is it different when you are brining in Hindus as superior intelligent beings? Being educated does not mean it has touched your life or changed attitudes. You can still be closed mind to certain things despite being to the Mars or la la land.

    India is the most ignorant nation in the world, according to a survey… http://www.ibtimes.co.in and many other websites.

    I still insist, there is no such thing as atheist Brahmin, when you say Brahmin your atheist claim is finished. Making mountain out of a mole n mocking others in oblique way is not a very educated attitude.Recommend

  • numbersnumbers

    All note how @Kasturi K has neglected to identify the “latest survey” stating that “Indians are the most ignorant people in the world”!
    So let’s see that “survey” or did you just make it all up to appear intelligent!Recommend

  • wb

    Again, I’m an atheist Brahmin and you’re a Muslim.Recommend

  • wb

    What did you expect from Muslims and Islamists? You should follow my policy of just humiliating them. That’s how you treat them.Recommend

  • wb

    Jealous of being able to take their jobs and technology and weapons. Jealous of earning the respect of the world. Jealous of spreading our warmth and culture to the world. Jealous of being able to make more money and progress. Jealous of being able to run some of the top companies of the world. Jealous of being able to go to moon and mars.

    Did you obviously miss those point or too jealous to mention them.Recommend

  • wb

    You should seriously stop listening to bedtime stories from your parents.Recommend

  • Kasturi K

    Get your eyes checked. There is a link given in my comment on top of yours.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Of the bi-partisan support India gets in the US, of Indians being the largest ethnic groups studying in higher education in the US, of Indians leading cutting edge tech companies in the US, of even a buffoon like Trump recognizing the need for good ties with India?
    I can go on. You know what you guys are jealous of though. India got the NSG-waiver, which means it can import reactors from other countries. I think Education, Technology and Trade ties don’t really speak to you. Nuclear reactors would have definitely gotten your attention. Don’t lie.Recommend

  • Ahmar

    That is hilarious. No I do not believe Indians have spread much warmth and culture to the world nor have they made so much wealth and progress that anyone would be jealous of ‘your accomplishments”.

    As for running some of the top companies of the world, a number of Pakistanis have also been at the top of global financial institutes/world bodies/companies. Why would I be jealous (or proud) of that? It’s not like I personally am at the top of that global body/company.

    Being able to go to the Moon or Mars are certainly brag-worthy accomplishments. However no Indians have ever been to the Moon (unless you went there in your dream?).

    As for Mars, no human..not even the Americans have been on that planet, so I am not sure what you are blabbering about.

    You are obviously deluded by Indian media and thinking you’re all that. Get off your high-horse.Recommend

  • Ahmar

    Frankly, I wasn’t even aware that India got NSG waiver or what that even means in the long run. Both Pakistan AND India already have enough nukes to destroy each other many times over and getting more nukes has no impact whatsoever. I would prefer Pakistan focus on improving the lives of Pakistanis. The Indians can keep buying and developing more nukes. I couldn’t care less.

    As for Trump, he’s salesman and a con. Con artists have a habit of saying nice things about their marks until they sell their garbage. He supposedly said some nice things about Pakistan on a phone call with our Premier, and I doubt he can even tell where Pakistan (or India) is on the map. Trump is the kind of scam artist who would say that Saudi Arabia is the beacon of human rights as long as he gets to sell billions of dollar worth of arms there. Really who cares what he says?

    As for Indians being the largest ethnic group studying in the US…you do realize that India has a huge population compared to any other country in the world, right? Why would anyone be jealous if Indians have a proportionately higher number of people studying abroad given their larger population? It is something that would be expected.Recommend

  • wb

    You obviously don’t believe, because being a Muslim, you’re both ignorant and hateful. I undestand, dear.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Using your ignorance as defense! You guys astonish me every day.

    “(India)getting more nukes has no impact whatsoever”

    If you knew what NSG and this waiver means, you would call yourself not-so-nice-names.

    Your ignorance is not limited to not knowing what NSG is and what a waiver is, apparently it extends to High School level knowledge.

    NSG is a cartel for Nuclear Tech for peaceful purposes, not weapons alone. India can’t get “more nukes”, it can get more nuclear reactors for generation of electricity!

    Pakistan is stuck with a grandfathered agreement with China. I don’t expect you to know what this means. So, I’ll put it in words you can understand. “India can get latest nuclear reactors to produce electricity, Pakistan can’t”.

    “Trump”

    Who he is or not as a person is immaterial(Please tell me you know what this means). We need his support in buying latest military hardware and we got it. Trump is America’s problem, not India’s.

    He said nice things to India AND he allowed the sale of Drones to India. He said nice things to Pakistan and has plans of sanctioning it. This is the difference.

    “you do realize that India has a huge population compared to any other country in the world, right? “
    You do realize that doesn’t affect the immigration pattern in the US, right? US won’t give more visas to Indian just because they are more in number. Number of H1Bs is limited to 85,000, irrespective of nationality.

    Indians are there because we are more educated and have firms in the high-tech department which qualify for these visas and Pakistan doesn’t. Not because of India’s size.Recommend

  • Ahmar

    Assuming people are good or bad merely because they belong to a group is quite stereotypical. I suppose you judge all Muslims as hateful, ignorant people and feel good about insulting them?

    So much for spreading warmth and culture into the world. Quite a self-righteous troll you are, dear.Recommend

  • Ahmar

    Long rant, but here’s the thing. We don’t need nuclear reactors. Has it occurred to you that there are other, far safer methods available for producing electricity? Solar, wind and bio-fuel. These technologies are rapidly advancing and become more and more efficient. You can sit on your NSG deal and swivel.

    Also stop worrying so much about Pakistan’s “grandfathered deal”. Every deal India gets is amazing. Any deal Pakistan makes is shitty. Suuure. Whatever helps you sleep easy at night, Einstein.

    Trump and America

    In the global marketplace today, no country can truly sanction another. America had put sanctions on Russia and Iran too. They survived.

    If Pakistan wants to buy military equipment, we can buy military equipment. If US won’t sell it, their loss. We will go to China, Russia and Turkey. Even France and Germany if EU gets fed up with Trump’s stupidity and decides to walk away from American influence. See personalities do matter in international politics.

    Military equipment is one of the most easily attainable commodity in global markets. I can only hope that US puts military sanctions on Pakistan so that we can walk away from those nagging Americans. Kind of like Philippines Duterte. In short, you can sit on those drones and swivel.

    Western Immigration

    A quick search on google reveals Mexico had the most immigrants going to US in 2015, followed by China and then India. Based on your logic, Mexicans must really be educated and own huge firms in that country?

    No. The top 3 immigrants to USA make sense given Mexico’s proximity to US as well as Chinese and Indian populations. This is followed by Philippines and Vietnam. Again no surprises given these countries’ historical ties with USA.

    As of 2015 number of Pakistani immigrants to USA was around 18,000 and number of Indians immigrating to USA was 64,000. Not a huge difference. In fact, given Pakistan’s population of 200 million, I’d say more Pakistani per capita are able to immigrate there compared to Indians.

    In 2013, number of Pakistani immigrants in US was higher than number of Japanese immigrants. So Pakistanis must be more educated and entrepreneurial than the Japanese?

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

    But..even if more Pakistanis were actually immigrating to USA compared to Indians you would still whine that Pakistanis are immigrating abroad because Pakistan is such a hellish place to live that everyone wants to leave. However as more Indians are immigrating right now…ahh it must be because we are so talented and educated. Well certainly not as educated and talented as those Mexicans who have the most immigrants moving to the USA…right? Right?

    So yeah. Sit on your western immigration figures and swivel.Recommend

  • wb

    My dear, I don’t care whether you’re good or bad. But I know for a fact that you’re stupid, ignorant and hateful. That’s a fact, dear.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    So, you have not only refused to accept your ignorance on the subject, but actually went ahead and defended it!

    Let me pulverize each of your arguments.

    1) Solar and Wind, though promising, is only part of the game. Diversification is the name of the game and one single reactor can produce electricity at very tiny cost. Its about Economics. Solar and Wind aren’t that economical yet.

    2) Your own Govt is investing in Coal based Thermal plants.

    3) Everyone is working on Nuclear Fusion reactors or what is called Cold Fusion. NSG would still control the technology and who ever is in, gets first hand access. I hope you aren’t ignorant about Nuclear Fusion. I’m guessing, you are, but.

    4) “Also stop worrying so much about Pakistan’s “grandfathered deal”. Tell that to Pervez Hoodbhoy.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1074169

    I am not worried. Please go ahead. Its a disaster waiting to be made. Full support from me.
    5) Surviving is not thriving. We want to thrive. Pakistan’s literacy rate is dipping and it dipped by 2% this year.
    6) Who the hell cares about illegal immigration? All I care about is how many Indians are enrolled in higher education in the US and how many high skilled visas are we utilizing. Both numbers are high, so I’m happy. I know for a fact that both are low for Pakistan. You seem to be fine with it.
    You are actually comparing illegal migration to India’s high skilled one! Genius!Recommend

  • Ahmar

    The only one displaying stupidity and hatefulness is you dear. And your silly opinions are not fact.

    dear…Recommend

  • Ahmar

    I’ll start near the end to burst your little bubble. I have seen the “highly-skilled” Indian migrants in the US and UK. Most Indian migrants open corner-shops, drive taxis, work in dead-end retail jobs or run curry restaurants. Not saying Pakistanis do much better, but at least I am not pretending that Pakistanis are doing highly skilled jobs in the west.

    As for energy, I am really moved that you worry so much about Pakistan’s energy needs and roam here, on a Pakistani epaper, to warn us how CPEC is a disaster. ^_^

    Spare me your concern.

    Pakistan is investing in hydro, wind and solar plants for the future. I am happy enough with that. Nuclear comes with meltdown risks and waste management. Again, if India wants fusion plants some time in the future, more power to you. Given the rising efficiency and higher research into solar and wind, I would prefer Pakistan go this route and we already are so win win, right?

    Pakistani govt IS investing in thermal coal plants. Yes…and? USA, China and even India are also investing in coal. Fossil fuels still remain the cheapest source of power despite research in alternative energy. What exactly is your point?

    The immigration figures I posted came from US department of homeland security. These figures aren’t about illegal migrants but legal ones you twat. A lot of illegal Mexicans do work in the US but they are not included in the figures I sourced from. Perhaps you think every Mexican working in the states is an illegal immigrant?

    I’ve posted actual stats that show more Pakistanis per capita are studying and migrating to USA compared to Indians. You are merely talking out of your.. behind.

    I still don’t see how more people studying or migrating abroad is somehow an indicator of success though. I would prefer less Pakistanis were migrating to the west or wasting resources on foreign educational institutions. The western higher education faculties are in a state of decline from what I’ve seen. I would prefer that resources be spent on improving Pakistani institutes rather than wasted in western Universities.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    “I’ll start near the end to burst your little bubble.”

    Buddy, what rock do you live under? Indians are the richest ethnicity in the US, even above the Jews.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/72a966866cc20e5d6b81e36bfc075664d5c4b7d10e22042271008c16aa388814.png

    Same in the UK.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

    Do spare some time to read both the reports.

    Please tell me your bubble hasn’t burst!

    You want Pakistan to adopt more solar, but Chinese are building Coal plants, genius! You wanting is irrelevant.

    For the want of time, I will stop here. I’ll come to it at a later date if needed. I would love your response on the “Most Indian migrants open corner-shops, drive taxis, work in dead-end retail jobs or run curry restaurants.” comment you just made in light of new information obviously no one has told you.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Muslims do that too. In fact, shouting “Allahu Akbar” in any Bazaar in Pakistan loudly will probably lead to people running away.
    Even your National Action Plan has stated that Religious institutions should be attacked and closed. Can you tell me how many Temples vs Mosques and Madrssahs vs Convents have been closed.
    You say Muslims are peaceful and like any other Religion, your own Govt doesn’t believe you.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Request your response. Especially Indians are low skilled labor part.

    Has your bubble burst?Recommend

  • Ahmar

    I am pretty sure I responded to this but ET didn’t publish my post.

    I don’t see the word Indian on your little chart.

    First, “Hindu” is not the same as “Indian”. I suppose you don’t count Indian Muslims as expats from India? Saying that “Hindu household income” being higher somehow shows Indian expats are highly skilled without looking at how that income is earned is just stupid.

    Taxi drivers can earn a lot of money in a big city like New York. You can also make big money running curry restaurants, corner shops, clothing/footwear retail stores. Now if you can make big money by starting small food businesses, more power to you. But to claim that making curry is a highly skilled profession? Funny ^_^

    Here’s an excerpt from an Indian paper about image of Indians in the west.

    We also face a unique form of discrimination. It seems that Indian Americans are treated less and less like people, and more and more as living jokes and memes; to be made fun of and ridiculed. The image of the modern Indian American is truly depressing.

    We are seen as weak, both physically and mentally, stereotypically nerdy and incredibly awkward.

    Read more at:
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/58554714.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

    China is also building solar and wind plants. Solar is the power of the future. However coal and gas plants remain the cheapest right now. I want both types but more investment in solar for the future. Pakistan is doing that. So I don’t see a problem.

    I wish ET had published my last post. I thrashed your silly arguments more thoroughly. Now I am kinda fed up of writing the same thing.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    “I don’t see the word Indian on your little chart.”

    I cannot wake up a person who is pretending to sleep.

    So you are saying Hindus are high achievers(in high-tech and otherwise) and you only saw non-Hindu Indians who were doing low income jobs, eh? Considering Muslims are 2nd largest minority, shall we assume that most of these Indians were actually Muslims?

    “Saying that “Hindu household income” being higher somehow shows Indian expats are highly skilled without looking at how that income is earned is just stupid.”

    Now, this is another little gem. So, per your logic, Hindus from India earn more money than anyone else by working in “corner-shops, drive taxis, work in dead-end retail jobs or run curry restaurants”. Now, after using the phrase “dead-end”, you now expect me to believe you meant high-paying, but non-skilled labor. Couldn’t you have just humbly withdrawn your statement?

    Since, the truth is on my side and well researched, I will keep proving every single statement of yours.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-indians-in-tech-20150812-story.html

    “nearly 16% of start-ups in Silicon Valley had an Indian co-founder even
    though Indians represented just 6% of the region’s population.”

    Read the article a bit more and see for yourself.

    “We also face a unique form of discrimination.”

    Boss, I worked in America for 2 years in California. Not to brag, but I excelled there. There were so many Indians in IT dept, that the nearby Apartment was a veritable Indian colony. Don’t user random people’s experience to justify your stance. Use data and facts, not personal experiences. Have you forgotten who the CEO of Google and Microsoft are?

    Also, you casually ignored the UK report titled “British Indians: a remarkable story of success” I shared.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html
    Your argument that Hindus not equals to Indians is not applicable here. Would love to hear what you think.. :)Recommend

  • Ahmar

    I am saying, based on your chart’s visuals, Hindu families appear to have marginally higher household incomes compared to other groups in the US. However, higher income does not necessarily translate to highly-skilled. Is it that hard to understand?

    Average taxi drivers in New York or Chicago working a 40 hour week could earn up to $80k per annum. Restaurant owners can make $100k- $150k per annum based on how good their business is doing. Retail stores and corner shops make slightly less than restaurants but still much higher than salaried “highly-skilled” workers do.

    South Asian immigrants working at dead-end retail jobs usually work 70-80 hours per week. None of the locals are willing to work that many hours. The highest case I have seen was an Indian fella in London who was working at a grocery store 14 hours each day. He was making more money than salaried commercial bankers do per month. His wife was also working in retail.

    Putting up stock and making curry is not highly skilled which is what the “majority” of immigrants are doing. Dose of reality ;)

    LA Times is specifically talking about the Silicon Valley. Just one industry, in one state. A very small percentage of Indian immigrants work there. Like 10% of total Indian migrants to USA?

    I did not ignore the UK report. ET did not publish my post and I felt it a waste of time to write the whole thing again

    Anyways, half the article is a comparison between Indian and white native British. Like I have stated above, most of the first and even second generation immigrants to the west work themselves to death putting in double the number of hours compared to naturally born citizens. The author calls them “industrious”. I call them exploited. Different perceptions.

    The other half of the Telegraph report is simply telling us how a large number of Indian immigrants turned up to Modi’s speech. Nothing amazing there. I am already aware there is a large number of Indians in London. Bangladeshi and Pakistani as well. There is also a good deal of pandering to Modi in that piece which brings me back to the raison d’etre for this whole boring debate.

    Modi and his stupid hugs. I still find them awkward and quite pathetic. Deserving of ridicule, especially when the recipients of his hugs have an expression that they’d rather keep their distance. And so, ridicule him, I shall.

    The man is a joke, and unless you have something to argue about him, I am quite done here.Recommend

  • ashish tiwari

    Pakistan was a lakey of America for first 60 yeras and now is a lackey of China.
    India Asean Isreal Japan Australia Europe and US interests converge in keeping China and its rouge lackeys like pakistan and north korea in control lest they forget their limitsRecommend

  • ashish tiwari

    Trump and Modi are real leaders who have won decisive mandate because they understand the real evil underbelly of not so communist expansionist china and its lackey the terrorist jehadi state of pakistan and north korea.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Comment was censored. I wish there weren’t so many shackles to free speech. I’ve not even used foul language! So, I’ll keep it short.

    Indians have high income, I’ve already proved. Indians are also more educated than the rest. There goes your argument about not-high skilled.

    https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2016/11/07/chart-hindus-are-the-best-educated-religious-group-in-the-u-s/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Americans#Education

    “71% of all Indians have a bachelor’s degree or higher (compared to 28% nationally and 44% average for all Asian American groups). Almost 40% of all Indians in the United States have a master’s degree, doctorate, or other professional degree, which is five times the national average.”

    I’ve already showed you how Indians bag most of the high-skilled visas and have a dominating presence in the Silicon Valley.

    https://www.recode.net/2017/4/13/15281170/china-india-tech-h1b-visas

    I think you are mistaking Pakistani, Bangladeshi immigrants for Indian. Don’t club India with backward regions of Indian Subcontinent.

    Please read the last 4 paragraphs.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/11981677/British-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.htmlRecommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    I’ve proved conclusively all the points you have made are wrong. Indians are the most educated, richest and most successful groups in the United States of America. I am waiting for a Thank You and acknowledgement from you.

    I’ve also quoted Telegraph which specifically says British Indians do way, way better than British Pakistanis. Please read the last 4 paras and acknowledge this also.

    Considering the trouble I’ve taken to educate you, you owe this much.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Ahmar,
    Looking forward to your reply. I am hoping you will thank me for updating your alarmingly deficient knowledge on how Indians live in US and other developed countries and how Pakistanis do.
    Since, you seem to be an upstanding citizen I am hoping you will do me the courtesy. Failing to do so would only make you look petty and small and would be a sad commentary on Pakistan.
    Have a lovely ignorance free day.
    Thanks,
    Anoop :)Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    You have predictably run away. So much for you bursting my bubble.

    When the truth is on one’s side, why would anyone run away?Recommend

  • Ahmar

    Run away from what? You keep shifting the goalpost, every time you are refuted.

    Like I have said do you have anything to present for Modi? No.

    Your argument so far has been “So many Indians are migrating to the USA.. so yeah, we are amazing.”

    It is a known fact that countries which are doing well economically have more immigrants coming in, than going out. There are more immigrants going into the US from Mexico than the other way around. More migrants moving from Eastern Europe into Western Europe than vice versa.

    Why would Indians move abroad if the country was providing amble education and job opportunities to its citizens?

    How many Americans or Germans migrate to live in India?Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    I am talking about 1 topic. You are not bringing Modi into the mix. I am not biting your offer of changing topic which suits you. You will say anything to admit whats in front of you – Indians are richest, most skilled and doing really well, which you said they don’t earlier.

    “Why would Indians move abroad if the country was providing amble education and job opportunities to its citizens?”
    First admit that Indians in the US are qualified than most, richest and doing very well in all fields, especially high tech.
    You said they are least skilled and do low end jobs. Both are wrong.
    Lets finish this thread and move forward. I want your apology and admission of wrongness.Recommend