Will Pakistan ever function as a secular state?

Published: October 30, 2016

Members of the Christian community hold placards and wooden crosses during a demonstration to condemn the death of the Christian couple. PHOTO: AFP

In Pakistan and, in fact, most of the Islamic world, the very concept of secularism is completely misunderstood. Somehow the concept has been thoroughly confused and amalgamated with atheism. An overwhelming majority of politicians, and even intellectuals, often try to defend themselves when “accused” of being secular, particularly on mainstream online media and Urdu print media. To declare oneself as a secular is considered equivalent to being considered an atheist in the public imagination.

The entire atmosphere is riddled with severe misconceptions about secularism. Due to fear of being branded an “atheist” and anti-Islamic, the word secular, in both letter and spirit, is virtually absent from the discourse. Even those who understand that secularism is fundamentally different from atheism often raise the question: “what good is secularism?” and “all we need is the right interpretation of religion.”

What these “reinterpretation” folks fail to understand is that there are often multiple interpretations of religious text and while at the individual level, one has the option to choose one over the other without infringing on anyone’s freedom, laws have to be uniformly applied across the board. So if we want to base our laws on shariah, eventually we will have to privilege one interpretation over the other since law cannot be selectively applied.

Since one interpretation has to be preferred, the question arises that which one? Once implemented, laws apply to everyone therefore it is impossible to favour one over the other without causing acrimony.

Besides horizontal differences (for example between Shiites and Sunnis or Barelvis and Wahabis), there is also a substantial disagreement between the so-called literalists and reformists. Since many a time, some Islamic laws come under criticism for being harsh, some who claim to be progressive have this point of view that we could have current laws modified according to some liberal interpretation of religion.

To a certain extent this reinterpretation approach is understandable because frankly this is apparently the only one available. But here the issue will be no less problematic because most of the Muslim countries simply do not have a tradition of liberal discourse on religion. In fact, liberal religious scholars virtually do not exist. Those who were talking of renaissance, like Javed Ahmed Ghamidi (a Pakistani scholar), have been forced to relocate. Some of their colleagues, like Dr Farooq Khan, have been killed.

Right now, the discourse is dominated by ultra conservatives no matter what school of thought they may belong to. How are we going to make sure that the “liberal” version will be acceptable to all? Who can guarantee that ultra-conservative version does not win?

Another issue would be to intellectually justify what criteria is used to reinterpret. Mind you, reinterpretation has to be consistent to be convincing, as opposed to a pick-and-choose policy.

A secular State, by being religiously neutral, will actually benefit all as it won’t impose any kind of version over another and would actually allow freedom to various sects.

And the fear that secularism would eliminate religion completely from the public sphere (some religious people have this fear and they oppose it because of that) is actually unfounded. A secular state does not mean a secularised society.

Here I would like to distinguish between the two concepts of secularism and secularisation. The former is the separation of State and religion, whereas the latter is the process by which religion loses its overall significance in society. Two are related and yet distinct.

Secularism does not essentially result in a secularised society. Turkey can be cited as an example where constitution embodies secularism but the society is still not secularised. A secular state, at least theoretically, is religiously neutral and does not try to infringe the religious freedoms of the religious lot. So fears that secularism would lead to the elimination of religious freedom or even loss of significance are largely misplaced.

Let me be clear: Secularism does not mean atheism and nor does it mean that the State forces people to simply discard religion. Turkey is a prime example that secularism does not create a secularised society.

Secularism merely means that religion is to be treated as a personal matter and not to be used by the State to either discriminate among various religious groups or impose one religion over another.

And yet due to all the misconceptions, the case for secularism is virtually absent from the discourse. Even those who are fairly progressive generally refrain from making such a case. Consequently there is no wonder that the appeal for secularism is virtually non-existent in society.

And this is really tragic because right now the entire Muslim world is in the spotlight due to strict Islamic laws and growing sectarianism within its borders. What many of us need to understand is that trying to impose strict ‘literally interpreted’ Islamic laws in modern times will always lead to problems within Islamic societies and negative repute in the international arena. Either you have to reinterpret the laws (the problems with that approach have already been discussed) or you have to separate the legal code from religion – which in essence is secularism.

Secularism does have its limitations. It may not prevent radical Islam from emerging but it will (in the longer run) delink the legal system with religion and hence the laws will be in line with modern times. Further it will also make the State neutral with respect to the faith of its inhabitants and this neutrality over the longer run will reduce internal sectarian tensions.

Treating religion as a personal matter is extremely essential as its projection into the public sphere is what causes discrimination and also leads to varying patterns of State sanctioned benefits and costs. By treating religion as a personal affair, a society tries to at least reduce such possibilities and reduce chances that a religious minority feels excluded.

Muslim followers are not monolithic (as they are divided into sects), therefore a secular State, by being neutral (at least theoretically), ensures neutrality on religious grounds. It will also protect non-Muslims living within Muslim countries and thus promote internal cohesion and also improve the image of Muslim societies in the international arena. Secularism may not be panacea for all the ills confronting many Muslim societies but it is still an essential step. I sincerely think that we need to address the misconceptions about secularism among Muslims. If anything, it will give various sects within Islam more religious freedom and also protect minorities.


Raza Habib Raja

The author is a recent Cornell graduate and currently pursuing his PhD in political science at Maxwell School, Syracuse University. He has also worked for a leading development finance institution in Pakistan. He is a freelance journalist whose works have been published at Huffington Post, Dawn (Pakistan), Express Tribune (Pakistan) and Pak Tea House. He tweets @razaraja (twitter.com/razaraja?lang=en)

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • AllahHiMaalikHain

    Never..This is Negation of 2 Nation Theory…According to some islam predated before 1400 years and first human being adam and eve were born muslim.Recommend

  • Ajay

    The study of Pakistan’s birth and present status can teach us how religion can be misused to the extent that it becomes poisonous for human society. If Pakistan was supposed to be a secular democracy then what was the need for its seperation from India? The extreme misery thrust upon innocent people during seperation, turned out to be an exercise just to satisfy the ego of few elite. The bitterness caused by this still haunts us. You can’t reap mangoes if you sow thorns. Pakistan was formed on the basis of religious intolerance and no wonder if it’s populace can’t concieve secularism and equate it with being atheist!!Recommend

  • https://twitter.com/Urooj__Hayat Urooj Hayat

    why not give Islamic political system a chance, in which even minorities will be secured and assured of their religious freedom. In a country, where more than 97% people are Muslims, secularism will create chaos in our society. Blasphemous laws alone don’t define Islamic political system, nor should we misinterpret it. Such laws are man made and can be reconsidered or amended. Islamic political system is much better than secularism. Just to please the westerners, we can’t compromise our traditions.
    We should surely keep one thing in mind that Pakistan was created on the basis of two nation theory, where government could protect the religious rights of people, whether Muslim or not. There was no concept of secularism that encouraged creation of Pakistan.Recommend

  • Keyboard Soldier

    The objective resolution needs to be discarded for that to happen. It CAN happen for sure, and the civilians are ready to do it when given the option.
    For Pakistan to become secular, the military needs to come under the command of the civilians. Recommend

  • Mm

    Very nicely put and sums up the argument logically. Secularism might be exactly what the country needs right now.Recommend

  • Paki Terrorist

    Pakistan secular state, a joke … !! Recommend

  • Bairooni Haath

    Unfortunately Secularism and Islam are not compatible. There is not a single example of a Muslim majority country that is secular.Recommend

  • Abdullah Cheema

    Brilliant article. Its incredibly important for us as a nation to start this debate and Im really glad someone brought it up in a fantastic way.Recommend

  • SuperNeo™

    Will Pakistan ever function as a secular state?
    Country was created on the name of religion.
    religion is the driving force in country
    religion is reason, why country is in this state today,
    Until this country’s is merged with other county , it will remain like this and keep on deteriorating.Recommend

  • Fahim

    Just after reading the heading of article I started laughing how people use words to work on their vested agenda. Pakistan constitution and majority of Pakistani have no intentions to be a secular state. Article 2 of constitution of Pakistan is “Islam to be State religion”. How can any author write such anti constitution article in a country? Is our country made a banana republic by government not using article 6 of high treason ?
    “Any person who abrogates or subverts or suspends or holds in abeyance, or attempts or conspires to abrogate or subvert or suspend or hold in abeyance, the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by any other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason.”Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    I know secularism does not mean atheism. I know secularism is religiously “indifferent”.

    I’m one of the people that want an Islamic republic. A few things:

    1) As a Muslim I cannot support religion not being in public space. What others think of us is a non issue. They don’t hate us for practicing Islam.
    2) All the good things that you wrote like no discrimination of minorities are already a part of an Islamic republic. You should read about it.
    3) The issue of who’s version of Islam will be the primary one has already been discussed between scholars and solved.
    4) The legal, economic and cultural systems have to be governed by Islam.
    5) One cannot be a Secular Muslim. As being a Muslim entails supporting a political system based on Quran and Hadith. Just talking about the political part here.

    If you want to change my view or correct my interpretation then you have to debate us. Rather than being above the fray.Recommend

  • M. S. Chaudhry

    Secularism is a bad word in Pakistan. Very few intellectuals have yet started talking about it. Those who talk about it are balancing it by demeaning democracy in same breadth. To become a familiar and accepting term for masses would take decades if not centuries. How come majority of university and college students who became members of religious and extremist parties during their learning years, took oaths on their ideologies would start posing as secularists during their “building the nation” years.Recommend

  • atheist

    why is atheism bad?Recommend

  • Jayman

    Forget ‘secular’.

  • Baba

    Pakistan will never be a fully secular state as our society is not secular. The shah of Iran and Mustafa Kamal Attaturk tried to change Islam in their counties by forcing western secular culture on society. Likewise Some Liberal extremists in Pakistan are trying to destroy the influence of religion in Pakistan, but luckily these people are a fringe minority. Pakistan can stay a Muslim state while allowing freedom to religious minorities. We just need some tolerance without going overboard with Liberalism, secularism etcRecommend

  • Raj Rao

    Pakistan should learn from Turkey and Malaysia or even UAE. Saudi Arabia is not the role model.Recommend

  • MR.X

    InshAllah Never,
    WE LOVE OUR RELIGION. And we will follow it no matter what someone says its backwards etc..You cannot be a true believer until you also believe Allah to be your GOd and thus his laws apply to your personal life as well as state affairs..Recommend

  • darkbites

    How do u know its better? The only not failed state that can be called islam are the oil filled country , which is almost a secular county.

    You said it is better andneeds tobe implemented , have you evee why none of the islamic country followed it ?

    Its because hey did follow it , and when they fail , you peple simply say its not the correct interpretation.Recommend

  • wb

    You’ll forever remain a backward country. Islam itself is a very regressive political ideology. This is why, today, most Muslim countries are slaves of non Muslim countries in one way or another. In other words, every Muslim country is controlled by non Muslim countries.

    In your own case: China and USA.Recommend

  • wb

    Islamic political system is much better than secularism? Do you read? Do you read history written by nonbiased non Muslims?

    Throughout the last 1450 years, Muslims have never lived in peace with others or with each other. The wars, genocides, destruction committed by the so called Islamic systems has resulted in the death of several hundred millions. At least 100 million were killed in India alone during the 700 year rule of Muslim occupiers.

    Muslim countries have not contributed to a better world in any way. Muslim countries today are all owned by non Muslim countries. In your case, your country is a slave of China and USA.

    “Such laws are man made and can be reconsidered or amended.”

    Blasphemy laws are manmade?!!! Really? Since you are seeking Islamic system, I urge you to read the Quran and Hadees and find out what was the punishment for those who disrespected the Prophet or denounced Islam.Recommend

  • wb

    You’re wrong. Pakistan has only used the name of Islam.

  • wb

    Because, that’s what their minds have been taught from the very beginning. Every religious person knows that atheists base their belief on science and facts.

    And this hurts them in the heart because they’re raised with such a mindset. They can’t let logic deny something that their entire population which includes their friends, family, relatives, acquaintances have all kept faith in.

    That’s hard.Recommend

  • wb

    Unfortunately, freedom/secularism/art/culture/music/happiness/women’s rights/animal rights/human are rights denied. Open your eyes and look at all the Muslims of the world.Recommend

  • pk

    Please dont make Pakistan secular. Because Pakistan is perfect case study that how a theocratic country functions and how it goes down the drain.Recommend

  • pk

    Minorities are not your pet dogs and cats who require your protection. They are individual human beings & should have equal rights fully as Muslims have. They should be able to propagate their beliefs freely and if any Muslim want to convert to his belief system then it should be celebrated. Can this happen in your so called Islamic political system?Recommend

  • vinsin

    So where are minorities of Pakistan? Can a minority marry a Muslim, become President etc? How many of your relatives are from minority groups? How many minority religion did your parents taught you?Recommend

  • vinsin

    So will you marry a person from your minority group? Is Dancing in marriages part of Islamic Tradition? But the people those who created Pakistan never moved.

    Secularism has always created chaos in Abhramic Religions.Recommend

  • Abdul Hadi

    Secularism has single meaning which is Separation of Church & State. (religion from state) & its essential for west not for Muslim because Islam is not religion its Deen complete code of life so we cant seperate Islam from State.
    2ndly there is no difference of opinion in Collective state matter of Islam theres is only indivisual matter & rituals in which difference of opinion & interpretation exist.
    3rdly Madina is a 1st Islamic state where Christian, Jewish & Muslim live together no one feel state laws as a burden except corrupt ppl.
    4thly secularism give rights to man to legislate as Islam not give authority to any man to legislate except administrative laws.Recommend

  • vinsin

    Freedom of religion requires Freedom of speech and expression and that requires secularism. Your parents circumcise you without knowing what religion you will follow. Did you ever question about those on the basis of freedom of religion? Your statement is contradictory.Recommend

  • Fahim

    Atheist-ism says there is no GOD. This universe is created without any purpose and no one is our creator. They say something that they don’t know and we as a muslim can’t adopt it.Recommend

  • vinsin

    Pakistan was created in opposition to Turkish model. Before giving advise to Pakistan why India doesnt implement Turkish model.Recommend

  • Miyagi Jr.

    Mullah needs to come under the command of the civilians.Recommend

  • S.A Waqas

    Indeed !!Recommend

  • Fahim

    They are better than our current conditions but people want to make it more better than Saudi, Turkey and Malaysia.Recommend

  • Jayman

    Pakistan is perhaps the only nation in the world where ‘secular’ is a derogatory word. People here are routinely accused of being “secular” and the connotation is always bad.Recommend

  • Jayman

    You make some very good points.Recommend

  • wb

    Oh man, you’re trying to explain the benefits of vegetarianism. The utmost futile exercise.Recommend

  • Jayman

    The closest any Islamic nation got to being secular was Turkey. But they too have since regressed back. Syria was another that was tolerant towards other religions. But I am not sure Syria could be categorized as an Islamic nation.Recommend

  • wb

    I had only said that I know more about Islam than most of your Mullahs. So, if you want to learn about Islam and your own scripture, you could consult me.


    Islam has been awarded with the title of best religion of 2016 consecutively for 6000 years now by the Islam magazine through a poll conducted on muslims. First such poll happened when Adam and Eve were the only muslims living here and surprisingly both of them voted for Islam.Recommend

  • Eddied

    Brilliantly written article that discusses the real problem of over religiosity that is affecting Pakistan…unfortunately, this mistake of setting up a country based on a religion that has over 70 sects, will always be a problem…Recommend

  • Jayman

    Religion aka Faith is a suspension of disbelief. Most people don’t even accept that ‘atheism’ is actually a moniker that can be used to people who do not do that. If there’s a group of people who like the color yellow, you don’t call people who don’t like yellow as ‘anti-yellow’ or some such.Recommend

  • wisedesi

    Ya sure universe was created for people like you.Recommend

  • wisedesi

    People have no problem if you want to follow your practice just don’t impose that on others.Recommend

  • wisedesi

    Turki will be going down the drain as they are becoming pure state.Recommend

  • wisedesi
  • Kushal

    “Madina is a 1st Islamic state where Christian, Jewish & Muslim live together”
    Wonder where are those people now?Recommend

  • Jor El

    But can u open up your mind to it to study it as a concept from a critical point of view ?Recommend

  • Fahim

    Once I was inspired by agnosticism but now no more. I know only one thing that there is no one for me in this universe except Allah.Recommend

  • Fahim

    If I won’t be a Pan Islamic person than I would be humbled by your praise.Recommend

  • Omar K Cheema

    Pakistan has freedom of speech .
    just look at our media 24/7 trying to bring down the government.
    it was the media that brought down musharraf in 2007.
    Just because we love Islam does not mean we do not accept the good aspects of secularism.Recommend

  • Omar K Cheema

    minorities can marry in Pakistan.Recommend

  • Omar K Cheema

    minorities in India dont even have protection, and you talk about equal rights.
    why are christians in east india trying to seperate?Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    It was Hindu intolerance that made Muslims want a different country.

    Hindu intolerance.Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    How is it good?Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    ” This is why, today, most Muslim countries are slaves of non Muslim countries in one way or another.”
    Muslims ruled for around 1000 years.

    Which includes ruling India.

    Had it been only because of Islam then how did it last in the past?

    We are not slaves of any country.Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    I leaned about around 9 religions in school. Before i was 10. :). In Pakistan.Recommend

  • Rex Minor

    Every religious person knows that atheists base their belief on science and facts.

    This is a load of crap; The atheists or non believers in general have no affinity or scruples with science or facts but are simply fellow traveller relying on the standards and behaviour codes as establishd by the believers of the Ibrahimic faith.
    RHR the author himself is confused and is guilty of misinterpretting secularism; what he most probably means is that Pakistan Government should have a secular administration, the kind he is witnessing n the USA or we have in christian majority European countries. This task however, is very difficult and complex due to the lack of enlightening process of Aufklarung of the religion of Islam to the uneducated masses who are sorrounded by non believers and communists. There are no short cuts in the process of enlightnment.

    Rex Minor.Recommend

  • Rex Minor

    The author is not proposing any of the jibberish you have outlined. RHR is simply making an attempt to have an audience which recognises that the religion is none of the State business but that of individuals private affair, the adminstrartion guaranteeing the freedom of all religions in the country. The consitution of Pakistan is not the God sent commandments and should be amended if necessary.

    Rex MinorRecommend

  • Athiest

    Whether you agree or not most religions are few thousand years old, what happened to God(s) before that? How come all of the sudden they started sending their messengers fairly recently? Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    Or maybe it just came into being without any cause?Recommend

  • goggi (Lahore)

    Why is secularism desirable?
    In a theocratic state like Pakistan, the government and organized Islam, the politicians and the mullahs/zakirs are one!!! They all complement each other because they are all power and money oriented! All are cheap gangsters with lowest IQs and bankrupt conscience!!! It is therefore impossible to criticize the government for its hideous bedouin laws such as the blasphemy law, child marriage, triple talaq, violence against women, marital rapes, shia public self-torture cult etc, without criticizing Islam and vice versa! You have one or the other or both on your throats with full support of armed police and army!!! That is the main reason why our society has morally and psychologically completely regressed and suffered incurable damages.Recommend

  • Soledad

    Having dipped into Pakistani school books on such matters, I can truthfully assert that you were fed venomous propaganda about other religions. Before you were 10.Recommend

  • wb

    Atheism only says, there is no God. The rest you just made it up.

    I’m an atheist and I have a worthy life, with much more purpose.Recommend

  • wb

    There is a name for your blind faith. Superstition that has been infused into your brain by your ancestors and their ancestors.Recommend

  • wb

    Muslims did not rule anything for any years. A few brutal occupying kings ruled many countries.

    But the question is what good did they do? Nothing. These brutes like Babar, Aurangazeb, Ghaznavi only brought death and destruction.

    You are a slave country of both China and USA. If you don’t know this, then you don’t know Pakistan.

    And given money, you could become slaves of any country.Recommend

  • wb

    You’ve been fed with an overdose of propaganda. What you mentioned is fiction.Recommend

  • wb

    Really? Is that what he’s talking about? Philosophy? He’s talking about what is commonly said.Recommend

  • wb

    Pakistan has freedom of speech?!! The moment I comment about certain establishments of Pakistan or criticize Islam, ET moderators remove the comment.

    Your own poor Pervez Rashid was kicked out of the government because he spoke the truth.

    Where is freedom of speech in Pakistan? You clearly don’t know much about your own country.Recommend

  • wb

    Knowing the names of religion is not the same as knowing religion. Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    This sort of quasi-intellectualism does a lot to inhibit the ummah’s progress.

    Secularism is the separation of religion from the affairs of state. Muslims are required to uphold the laws of Islam using a state as a medium. Therefore secularism is not compatible with the teachings of Islam. Muslims who advocate secularism are usually seen as atheists or hypocrites because attempting to separate Islam’s laws from the state is at best haram and at worst kufr (depending on the knowledge and intention of the person).

    If the author was someone who actually had studied Islam, history (specifically Islamic history) and colonialism/neocolonialism he wouldn’t be saying any of what he is saying. He’d realize that Islam has always had a system in place to deal with differences of opinion, actually allows different religions to practice their beliefs without state interference, provides rights such as free energy, water and even an allowance etc.Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    In a sense, every Muslim majority nation is currently secular because besides a few laws here and there the majority of the laws are not taken from Islam directly as they should be. Putting on an Islamic mask is not the same as being Islamic.Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    As it should be, secularism has brought nothing to the world.Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    There was more freedom of religion under the Ummayads than there is in the world today and they were an entirely Islamic government. The proof is that Umar ibn Abdul Aziz allowed the Magians to practice incest according to their beliefs specifically because they were told they could govern themselves from within the Caliphate according to their own laws.

    Meanwhile secular nations like France had only recently forced women to undress just to fit cultural norms.Recommend

  • Jor El

    K, thats a fine view … but that doesnt mean other views r wrong or rubbish …Recommend

  • Pure Ind

    Well thats the reason why Islam is being respected globally?? Every religion needs respect, the thought of mine is better than yours is killing the world, sad to see that even educated muslims share this mind setRecommend

  • wb

    Lies uttered in so many words don’t make it truth.

    Here is a simple question. Can you give me irrefutable, provable evidence for God? There has never been ever, in the history of universe.

  • Fahim

    That why I am against atheists. In our language it is known as love of AllahRecommend

  • Fahim

    As a Muslim Our perspective as a Muslim is there is no nation on which messengers were not sent. Majority of people denied messengers because messengers was saying something that they can’t digest.Recommend

  • Fahim

    You may have a worthy life but be aware that Time is running outRecommend

  • Fahim

    With my experience I have already concluded not to label other(opponent) views to be right or wrong and put them in same box. I take pearl of wisdom even it is from hypocrite in accordance to Islam.Recommend

  • Fahim

    This is not a constitutional assembly and no law can be made or amended according to principles of constitution and its preamble. Before writing message here read preamble of constitution of Pakistan that can’t be modified. While Islam guarantee the freedom of religion in country and I haven’t written it to make you happy. It is just perspective that what piece of writing is gibberish ;) for me it is differentRecommend

  • Jayman

    Funny you say that and the only places Muslims want a visa to are ‘secular’ democracies.Recommend

  • Jayman

    Perhaps you might want to consider why Muslims want to migrate to ‘secular’ democracies in such huge numbers.Recommend

  • Jayman

    It is their routine. Don’t take those “facts” to be even close to reality. The text they quote has NOTHING to do with reality.Recommend

  • AA_Southpaw

    ok now i need to stop replying.

    Go read some history and you’ll know about the Muslim rule!


  • AA_Southpaw

    Pakistan a theocratic state? Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    It’s pretty clear why. They will go to where ever they think is a higher chance for personal prosperity.

    And what causes this prosperity?Recommend

  • RHR

    Ummah’s progress?
    What exactly is Ummah?Recommend

  • numbersnumbers

    Of course you are unaware of “secular” inventions such as the airplane, locomotive, printing press, computer, Internet, automobile, steamship, cellphone, PC, telephone, television, radio, radar, submarines, textile mills, MRI and x-ray machines, among others too numerous to list, along with advances in medical science and surgical procedures and pharmacy! Secular countries put men on the moon!
    Waiting for list of what non-secular countries have brought to the world!Recommend

  • goggi (Lahore)

    Yes, Pakistan is a theocratic state!
    The word theocracy originates from Greek meaning “the rule of God”. This in turn derives from “Theos” meaning “god”, and “krateo”, meaning “to rule.”Recommend

  • Rex Minor

    Can you give me irrefutable, provable evidence for God?

    Yes I can, provided you are prepared to undergo a scientific test which confirms your ability to comprehend the evidence you desire.

    Rex MinorRecommend

  • Rex Minor

    ReplyIf the author was someone who actually had studied Islam, history
    (specifically Islamic history) and colonialism/neocolonialism he
    wouldn’t be saying any of what he is saying. He’d realize that Islam has
    always had a system in place to deal with differences of opinion,
    actually allows different religions to practice their beliefs without
    state interference, provides rights such as free energy, water and even
    an allowance etc.

    Vey well said sir! But please note the definition of Ummah being the next one, a friend, the family and the humanity in general. Also there is no such thing as Islamic laws per se but the commandments of the God of Ibrahim which not all muslim majority countries including Pakistan today uphold. Not only the Madina charter of the seventh century but all those laws which the true believers of the Islamic religion legislate and do not contradict the dvine commandments can be regarded as Islamic laws. Besides, I would not uderstimate RHR’s knowledge about the religion of Islam though at times he talks about what is today known as the political Islam in the west?

    Rex MinorRecommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    Did you really just ask what non-secular countries have brought to the world? I think someone is in need of a history lesson.

    Are you not aware of how people from within the Caliphate brought upmost modern surgical tools, the Camera Obscura which eventually lead to the camera, the first flight (before the Wright brothers), coffee, Algebra, Trigonometry, the foundations of Chemistry, the preservation of ancient Greek texts, mechanical clocks, modern hospitals, child benefits and so on. Literally the list goes on and on and on.

    Not to mention that science in the world today is actually heavily hindered because of the current economic model. That is to say that corporations are heavily responsible for censoring and preventing scientific advancement for their own gain. For example, how the oil companies have made sure ethanol or methanol are not viable fuel options for most people.Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    The Muslim global community.Recommend

  • Jayman

    So what you’re admitting is that this religious thing is just hot-air. If anybody offers them a chance to make more money, they’d ditch all their ideological leanings.
    Prosperity is a result of good systems in place. An education system that does not handicap its citizens and feed them lies. Praying never made any nation prosperous. It is no accident that most secular democracies are either affluent or heading in that direction.Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    I didn’t say that. They go to where there is more prosperity and this is permitted in Islam. Not Pakistan, not Saudi Arabia etc. So there’s no Islamic nation for anyone to live in currently.

    Prosperity can also be a result of stealing. A bank robber may live a prosperous life, but his prosperity is built on the suffering of countless others. Recommend

  • RHR

    Rex I will answer you Recommend

  • numbersnumbers

    In other words, NO you can’t Recommend

  • numbersnumbers

    Hahaha, “first flight before the Wright Brothers”!
    Please humor us with the where and when of that first flight!
    BTW, you neglected to take a history lesson about my above list of inventions that, according to you, “have brought nothing to the world”!Recommend