Armenian genocide: Millions killed and forgotten

Published: January 1, 2011
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Turkey has always denied the death of 1.5 million Armenian Christians as genocide, blaming it on civil war at the time.

On December 24, 2010, the United States once again avoided diplomatic difficulties with a Nato ally, Turkey. The House of Representatives ended its term by not putting forward a resolution recognising the genocide of the Armenians by the Ottoman Empire during World War I. This resolution is unlikely to be passed by the Congress in the next term because the next house speaker, John Boehner, does not support it.

According to the Independent, supporters of the resolution had high hopes for it to be passed before the term ended because the outgoing speaker, Nancy Pelosi, had previously supported the resolution.

Turkey is an important ally of the US in the Middle East playing a supporting role in the Iraq War and has helped the US in the past on other war fronts. Turkish governments have always denied the death of 1.5 million Armenian Christians as genocide, blaming it on general anarchy and civil was at that time. However, historians term it as the first holocaust of the 20th century, of which documentary and photographic proof also exists.

Genocide roots in the Ottoman Empire

Within the Ottoman Empire, the Armenians were generally concentrated in the eastern provinces. According to the Dhimmi system in the Ottoman Empire the non-Muslims were subjected to over-taxation and limited legal freedoms. Generally referred to as infidels or unbelievers, they were not considered equal to Muslims. Testimony of a non-Muslim against a Muslim was not admissible in court and their houses could not be higher than their Muslim neighbor’s.

Initial massacres took place under the rule of Sultan Abdul Hamid II in the late 19th century. These were called the Hamidiyan massacres in which, according to different historians, 80,000 to 300,000 Armenians were killed.

In 1908, the monarchy had collapsed after the Young Turk Revolution and by 1913 the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), Ittihad ve Terakki Jemiyeti, emerged at the head of the government in a coup. The CUP had an extreme Turkish nationalistic ideology and was mainly controlled by Enver Pasha, Minister of War, Talat Pasha, Minister of the Interior and Grand Vizier in 1917, and Jemal Pasha, Minister of the Marine.

The resettlement program

I will not go deep into political background of the genocide which occurred during World War I but one of the basic reasons behind it was Ottoman insecurity that the Armenian Christian subjects will support the Russians pushing on in the eastern front of the war. Some historians also credit it to the policies of the government to create a unified and pure “Turkish state.”

In the spring and summer of 1915 Armenians all around the empire were ordered to deport under a fictitious “resettlement program.” Convoys consisting of hundreds of thousands of Armenians from different parts of the empire started towards the Syrian Desert. These convoys were basically death marches because most of the people were subjected to torture, rape and slaughter during their painful journey towards the desert. The government did not make any plans for the provision of food and water and thousands died of starvation and disease. Some evidence of a primitive form of gas chambers also exists, where women and children were put into a cave and the entrance of the cave was set on fire, suffocating the people inside the cave.

The forgotten holocaust

A new “Special Organisation” called the Teshkilâti Mahsusa, was formed as a tool for extermination. Approximated two million Armenians lived in the Ottoman lands in 1915 but by 1918 an estimated 1 million had perished and by 1923 a negligible number of Armenians were left in main Anatolian Turkey.

Photographic and documentary evidence exist of the extermination of the Armenian race from the Ottoman lands.

This Genocide the forgotten holocaust because it was over-shadowed by the killing of the six million Jews during the World War II by Nazi Germany and generally people really don’t know about it. It is ironic because while persuading his associates that a Jewish holocaust would be tolerated by the west, Adolf Hitler said the following and he was right:

Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?

Events of such magnitude cannot be explained in one article so for readers who are further interested in knowing about what took place in the Ottoman Empire during that time, should have a look at the following:

  1. Great War for Civilization: The conquest of the Middle East – By Robert Fisk (Chapter 10)
  2. Subjects of the Sultan: Culture and Daily Life in the Ottoman Empire – by Suraiya Faroqhi
  3. The Knock at the Door: A Journey through the Darkness of the Armenian Genocide – by Margaret Ajemian Ahnert
  4. A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility – by Taner Akçam
  5. Survivors: An Oral History Of The Armenian Genocide – by  Donald E. Miller and Lorna Touryan Miller

Ahmed Aziz

Ahmed Aziz

A PhD candidate at the University of Canterbury in New Zealand. He is interested in the Middle East.

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • Raqib Ali

    Turkey has distanced herself from Caliphate and has been a NATIONALIST & strictly Secular country for decades under Mustafa Kamal Attaturk.

    Turkish people are very proud people and very sensitive on this matter. They find it unjust that they are being blamed of this Exaggerated genocide when it was done before modern Turkey was formed.

    If ET published this as a ‘public service message’, there should be more pieces on forgotten Gypsies. Everyone knows about Jewish genocide, while ignoring more than 5 Million gypsies killed by Hitler!! Recommend

  • Farrukh Mujahid

    Interesting piece. Though I better read more about this before I comment.Recommend

  • Weston Heintz

    Very nice article, now that this piece of history has been brought to my attention, looks like I have some more reading to do into the matter.Recommend

  • http://www.thebalochhal.com Malik Siraj Akbar

    Dear Ahmed, thank you so much for bringing the Armenian genocide to the attention of the Pakistani readers.I have always been perturbed why not many Pakistanis newspapers mention about it in any of their sections. I read about it in detail in Robert Fisk’s book which you have recommended.
    @RAQIB: You can not justify or forget one genocide only by suggesting us to take a look at the other genocides. Every genocide merit equal exposure to the reader.
    A wonderful piece. Hope to read more on the topic in the future. Recommend

  • MihranK

    Mr A.Aziz has thoroughly studied the case of the Armenian genocide,I congratulate you for your excellent article which should be an eye opener for the so called civilised world,as any genocide which goes unpunished will raise its ugly head over and over again,history is the witness of this sad fact.Recommend

  • Aksal

    These are blatant lies. Armenian terrorists colloborated with the invading Russian army and murdered half a million Turks and Kurds (Muslims). They had to be relocated because they were a fifth column. Armenian christian savages now claim they were subject to genocide but will never launch a case in the international court to prove it. All they do is political lobbying and aim to defraud and slander.

    Its a shame and disgrace that a proud Muslim nation like Pakistanis can side with these armenian liars and racists against MuslimsRecommend

  • omar khan

    Ahmed, hope it was not your curriculum assignment that you decided to shove down the throats of the readers of this newspapers. Given the fact that a self-righteouys West, including the US, have repeatedly used this issues to arm-twist Turkey, your completely one-sided portrayal of history must have pleased your mentors at the Caterbury University. Recommend

  • David K

    Thank you for bringing the Armenian genocide issue to attention to the readers. Genocide is the worse form of crime against humanity and should be condemned by everyone regardless of their backgrounds. Turkey spends millions to promote its denial policy but in the end, truth will always prevail.Recommend

  • faraz

    Its certainly the most shameful act of Ottoman history.Recommend

  • Rajat

    Well, one should not look back to early 1900’s when the perpetrators more recent genocides of Tamils in Sri Lanka, Timor Catholics in East Timor, Hutu/Tustsi in Rwanda or Bengali genocide in East Pakistan roam freely in our midst. Concentrating on a genocide that happened 100 years ago while being totally oblivious to the more recent ones is just risible. I am not saying that the Armenian genocide should just be rubbished (as the bloke Aksal has done above) and should not be forgotten, but we, as the present day generation should be very very shameful if we let the perpetrators of the more recent incidents get away, and find that our future generation are organising protests and marches a hundred years in the future for such genocides done in our present. Recommend

  • Vrak

    “Turkish people are very proud people and very sensitive on this matter.”

    So what, the rest of the world should tiptoe around the poor sensitive Turks for fear they’ll cry or, more likely, throw a tantrum like their PM did at Davos? Do me a favour. All this “we are a proud people” crap is a load of emotional blackmail. If you’re really so proud, then you should be confronting your past, not airbrushing it.

    “Everyone knows about Jewish genocide, while ignoring more than 5 Million gypsies killed by Hitler!!”

    True, that’s because nobody’s denying the Nazi holocaust, (except for the racist, idiotic, delusional, far-right)!Recommend

  • FlowerPower

    @Aksal: I’m sorry to say this, but you’re talking about the wrong Armenians! The Armenians that went against you were mainly the Eastern Armenians, not the Western ones! Uh don’t you know your history? If not then I suggest you look at other Western books instead of those textbooks that tell you what to believe. As I recall only 100 were killed by Eastern Armenians, yah by Armenian men in self defense! Stop being such a bully! Also what kind of government puts you in jail for speaking your mind? I mean come on its the 21st century Turkey should have evolved like Germany and the rest of Europe! If you want to keep it in the dark ages, then I suggest not even bothering to come to the EU! The EU is a special place where people agree and have many things in common, and I just don’t see how Turkey is going to get into the EU if they keep on not only denying the genocide, but helping other countries commit it.

    I mean come on have a heart for those millions of Armenian women and children that were told they would return to their homes after being, “relocated into another settlement” which was totally bullcrap. They were driven out into the middle of nowhere, where they were tortured, raped, murdered in various ways that I hesitate to repeat! Also pregnant women and old women would be stabbed!

    The Pakistanis are not anti-Islam! Listen to your Muslim brothers for Christ sakes! My Russian tutor is married to a man from Iran who is in fact a Muslim himself, and she told me that in fact the Turkish Government did try to murder all the Armenians in Ottoman Territory! I’m pretty sure that if it were the other way around then she would tell me.

    I just wish Turkey would stop thinking they’re better than anyone else. Just because we talk about the Armenian Genocide does not mean we’re insulting all the Turks or the entire nation. That doesn’t make us anti-Islam either! I am American and I don’t think I’m better than anyone else in the world, in fact I know for a fact that stuff has happened that I’m not proud of! Just because nobody else is Turkish and have different opinions and state facts doesn’t mean they’re any lesser of a human or that you’re better than us! There are a lot of Muslims that live in America and in other countries too, so don’t use that anti-Islam excuse, it doesn’t work anymore!

    Also who cares if more Jews were murdered under Hitler, two wrongs don’t make a right or make another wrong better! Genocide is genocide, and Turkey is guilty of it! Recommend

  • Saad

    There was a civil war happening at that time a lot of people died during that time. There is no reason to blame the turkish government. People need to understand that turkey at that point in time was surrounded by all side by enemies that wanted to destroy it and carve it up into their zones of influences. A lot of turks too died during that time. It is unfortunate that the author did not comment on the suffering of the turkish period of that time. It is sad that a Pakistani is writing this kind of non-sense about the Turkey which is a great country and has always sided with us. Recommend

  • Zarish

    Good points raised about the Ottoman history that we chose to ignore!!Recommend

  • KatiaP

    Thank you Mr. Aziz for your insight on the Armenian Genocide. It is sad that all those “civilized” countries that preach human rights and justice are the ones that are also helping Turkey deny this historical fact.

    However, to put things straight, especially to those who comment that Turkey is sensitive about this issue, etc… No one, not even a single Armenian, blames the current Turkish government of Genocide perpetrated against the Armenians and other minorities. The Genocide was committed by successive governments in the latter days of the Ottoman Empire and during the Young Turk rule… I will also have to mention the massacres committed by Mustapha Kemal’s Nationalists in the early 1920s, especially in Smyrna in 1922 when over 60 thousand Greeks, Armenians and other minorities were massacred.

    These are the governments being blamed for the Armenian Genocide, not today’s Turkey. What Turkey – and the successive US governments – is guilty of is denying the historical facts. And in crimes, one who protects the criminal and denies the crime is considered an accomplice.Recommend

  • G. Din

    @Raqib Ali
    “…Exaggerated genocide when it was done before modern Turkey was formed. ”
    In the US, there are some whites who tell blacks:”Don’t blame me. I did not put you into your current predicament, my ancestors did. Therefore, I don’t see why you should get any preferential treatment over me for the wrongs you suffered.” They forget that if it had not been for their brutality to blacks, they would not be enjoying the kind of life they are leading over blacks.
    If “Modern Turkey” calls itself Turkey, it inherits good with the bad that is associated with that name. Turkey is squarely responsible for the Armenian genocide and if the Turkish call themselves honourable, they should own up the responsibility.
    Its conflicting role with Greece in Cyprus has already come back to haunt it. It is Greece that is calling the shots.Recommend

  • John

    Thank you Mr. Aziz for superbly summarizing the facts of the Armenian Genocide and calling on all people of moral conscience to help the Armenian people and all other genocided nations achieve restorative justice.

    The international community — including more than 20 Western countries — has verified time and time again that the Armenian Genocide is an incontestable reality which must finally come to an end.

    Turkey owes Armenians not only an official apology, but also hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations and hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of Turkish-occupied Armenian lands (Western Armenia and Cilicia).Recommend

  • Refik Bek

    Very well done!
    We are talking of human suffering, injustice and generations lost. It’s amazing how some people very quickly turn this into a religious issue instead of a humanitarian one.

    It was actually the Arab muslims and Kurds who saved hundreds of thousands of Armenians during the death marches, provided them with shelter and food, and even protection.

    Please refer to the fatwa issued by Al-Husayn Ibn Ali, Sharif of Mecca on 18 Rajab 1336, where he decreed that Armenians should be protected and taken care of.
    http://www.armenian-genocide.org/Affirmation.4/currentcategory.1/affirmationdetail.html

    Once again, good job. It’s about time .Recommend

  • http://www.ethocide.com Ergun Kirlikovali

    You are taking Armenian allegations at face value without applying critical thinking or learning the other side of the story. The facts are not that hard to see:

    Armenians took up arms against their own government. After a millennium of harmonious cohabitation, Armenians, schoe to resort to revolts, terrorism, and supreme treason, making territorial demands and causing countless Muslim/Turkish casualties, all of which triggered the TERESET (temporary resettlement of 1915).

    These facts do contradict with the embellished and falsified Armenian narrative, as seen in thr above artcile, which in turn, creates “cognitive dissonance” in Armenian people. This psychological trauma can be resolved in two ways:

    1) accept the facts and change your attitude accordingly, or

    2) ignore/dismiss the facts and demonize all dissenters.

    Most Armenians, unfortunately, seem to choose the latter, hence no closure after a century.

    BIAS IN THE TERM “ARMENIAN GENOCIDE”

    If one cherishes values like fairness, objectivity, truth, and honesty, then one should really use the term “Turkish-Armenian conflict”.

    Asking one “Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide” shows anti-Turkish bias. The question should be re-phrased: “What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?”

    Turks believe it was an inter communal warfare mostly fought by Turkish and Armenian irregulars, a civil war which is engineered, provoked, and waged by the Armenian revolutionaries, with active support from Russia, England, France, and others, all eyeing the vast territories of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, against a backdrop of a raging world war.

    Armenians, on the other hand, totally ignoring Armenian agitation, raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, and Turkish victims killed by Armenians, unfairly claim that it was a one way genocide. Recommend

  • http://www.ethocide.com Ergun Kirlikovali

    Part 3

    VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING

    Those who take the Armenian “allegations” of genocide at face value seem to also ignore the following:

    1- Genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention (Like all proper laws, it is not retroactive to 1915.)

    2- Genocide verdict can only be given by a “competent court” after “due process” where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined.

    3- For a genocide verdict, the accusers must prove “intent” at a competent court and after due process. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, mis-representations, exaggerations, forgeries, and “other”.

    4- Such a “competent court” was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due process.)

    5- Genocide claim is political, not historical or factual. It reflects bias against Turks. Therefore, the term genocide must be used with the qualifier “alleged”, for scholarly objectivity and truth.

    HISTORY IS A MATTER OF SCHOLARSHIP, NOT CONSENSUS

    History is not a matter of “conviction, consensus, political resolutions, political correctness, or propaganda.” History is a matter of research, peer review, thoughtful debate, and honest scholarship. Even historians, by definition, cannot decide on a genocide verdict, which is reserved for a “competent court” with its legal expertise and due process.

    POLITICAL LYNCHING OF THE TURKS TODAY

    What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. Values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet. Unprovoked , unjustified, and unfair defamation of Turkey, in order to appease nagging Armenian activists runs counter to human rights , if not also western interests.

    Those who claim genocide verdict today, based on the much discredited Armenian evidence, are actually engaging in “conviction and execution of Turks without due process”, which is the definition of an omenous term in the dictionary: lynching.

    Isn’t it time to stop fighting the First World War dishonestly and give peace a real chance?Recommend

  • David W.

    Dear Ahmed

    Thank you for writing such an objective and well written piece on the Armenian Genocide. Being quite familiar with the history, I have discovered that most people who have an opinion about the Armenian Genocide only have a superficial awareness of the magnitude of the crime and its importance to humanity today. The systematic nature of the Armenian Genocide is well documented in the archives of the world including the Ottoman Empire’s WW1 allies such as Germany. Raphael Lemkin, the man who coined the word Genocide in 1944, used the Armenian case as an example of what the word meant. The creation of the Genocide Convention means that this issue is an international issue and not one confined to just Turks and Armenians. Genocide is defined as a “crime against humanity”. It should concern all of us.

    The continued destruction of Christian Armenian monuments in Turkey throughout the 20th century coupled with the denial by the current Turkish state of the genocide, means that this is a current international human rights issue, and not one which belongs only to the past as some claim i.e 100 years ago. It’s about eliminating the physical and cultural elements of a distinct religious/racial group by another. The notion that the Armenians rebelled was only a pretext for the deportation of a whole race. Deporting Armenian women and children from areas of western Turkey such as Bursa, Eskishehir, Afion Karahissar etc dissproves any notion that the Turkish govt’s actions were a justified measure of military necessity. It is great to know that a Pakistani media outlet has published such an insightful piece on the issue.Recommend

  • yolo

    The Turks murdered millions of all kinds of Europeans and eastern Europeans throughout their entire history. They massed murdered the Greeks in 1974 on cyprus. They destroyed the churches and supplanted the greeks with Turks. There are almost no Christians left in a once christian land and the nation is becoming islamic again. Turkey needs to be watched closely and the world should be rady for the wars it will start again. Recommend

  • Refik Bek

    @Aksal,

    Please refer to the original letter from Al-Husayn Ibn Ali, Sharif of Mecca on 18 Rajab 1336:

    http://www.globalarmenianheritage-adic.fr/0ab/x9_hussein3.jpg

    What the turks did has nothing to do with religion, they used religion to execute one of the ugliest genocide in human history, and are now using religion again to cover it up.

    Islam is a religion of peace and brotherhood, and what turks did has nothing to do with Islam.Recommend

  • Ahmed Aziz

    I would kindly urge readers to keep an open mind and study the history of this time and this region rather than being defensive. I remember our “selective” history books at school. The Ottoman Empire for us Pakistanis has been imprinted in our minds as the Last Golden Caliphate which is simply not true. All we know is that Maulana M A Jauhar fought with the colonial British to preserve the Ottoman Empire. So In all of our minds its that amazing last glorious time.

    So I would urge readers to read survivor stories, Ottoman Documents, Journalist reports, even evidence given by Ottoman Allies during World War One in the form of eye witness testimony and photographs by Armin Wegner – a Second Lieutenant in the German stationed in the Empire (http://www.armenian-genocide.org/photo_wegner.html). All exists.

    As Far as the reasons given by different readers above are concerned, being a 5th column, treason and agitation does not justify ethnic cleansing by death. Does not justify deportation of a whole race. Oppressed people agitate it doesn’t mean that the government just decide to arrest all the intellectuals and deport a whole race to a desert. NOTHING justifies annihilation of a whole race from 2 million to a negligible number.

    It is the same as saying that the Serbs did the right thing at Srebrenica by by massacring 10,000 Bosnian because Bosnians wanted a separate homeland so they are committing “treason” and “agitating”. It is the same as saying that Israel’s Phalangist allies massacre of 1700 Palestinians in Sabra and Chatila camps in Beirut, Qana Killings, many killed in Operation Cast lead in Gaza, were all justified because Palestinians are agitating so kill all the agitators and people wanting their right. When it happens to us we shout and scream, massacre and genocide. But when we ourselves do it we deny and be defensive.

    Nothing justifies an eradication of a race. Nothing justifies Genocide. Recommend

  • David A

    I wish that instead of trying to introduce a perverted and one-sided version of history to Pakistani readers, the writer would devote the same effort to talk about the killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslim Turks and Kurds at the hands of Armenian Dashnak forces in World War I. Comparing the events of World War I in Eastern Anatolia to Holocaust of Jews in World War II is an insult to intelligence of readers. Because Jews did not organize into armed forces with support from neighboring countries to kill Nazi Germans, while Armenians did form own militias and fought in organized fashion on the side of Russians against Ottoman Empire.

    Genocide (term coined in 1948, some 30 years after World War I) is not simply about killing of people, civilians do die in any war. It’s about an intent to destroy in whole or in part an entire nation, which was present in case of Nazis vs Jews, and not present in case of Ottoman Empire vs. Armenians. For that same reason, Russians, Ukrainians or other Soviet subjects cannot claim genocide by Germans, despite loosing more people (over 20 million) in World War II than Jews.

    And while at it, why does not author mention the killing of some 25,000 Muslim Azeri Turks and occupation of 20% Azerbaijani territory by Armenian forces, that is as recent as 1990s. Why not talk about Khojaly Massacre, an act of ethnic cleansing and genocide, committed in 1992 by Armenian forces, with video-recorded evidence of skinning, scalping and cutting women’s bellies. I think telling truth that we see and know is far more valuable than trying to interpret 100-year old history, clearly blackmailing an entire Turkish nation. Recommend

  • Yuksel Oktay

    Ahmed Aziz, judging from the photo of his in the article, must be a young chap who probably does not know what he is talking about, but wants to make an impression for himself, forgetting that he is insulting probabaly the only real ally that Pakistan has. Based on my 45 years of involvement in the Armenian issue, which is probably better to label as Armenian tragedy, through reading hundreds of books, magazine articles,attending countless conferences in Turkey and in America and writing in different forums, I can tell the Pakistani people and others as well, that the death of Amenians during their relocation following their many uprisings and their fight against their own government to gain independence on lands where they were never a majority by joining the Russian and French Forces during the First World War, can not be labeled as genocide. To equate this with the Holocaust is insane.

    Armenians and Turks were not alone in the creation of the Armenian tragedy since the western nations and America were responsible for inciting nationalistic feelings among the Armenians and supporting them in their ambition to create a state of their own on lands where they were never the majority. This has been told in many books that Ahmet Aziz seems to ignore but refer to those which do not tell the truth. Books written by the likes of Ambassador Morgentahu in 1916 and historian Toynbee in 1919 are all based on fabricated stories and outright lies, as has been shown by many historians. Ahmed Aziz should read books written by Justin McCharty, Prof. Turkkaya Ataov and Sukru Server Aya, including “Genocide of Truth” and apologize from the Turks for his thoughtless article.

    Yuksel Oktay
    Washington, NJ
    2 January 2010Recommend

  • KatiaP

    @Yuksel Oktay:
    Mr. Oktay:

    Turks call for a neutral commission of historians to study the Genocide. However, no matter how “neutral” these historians are, Turks are never satisfied. Why should a commission be formed when the International Association of Genocide Scholars – almost all non-Armenian independent scholars – have unanimously called the events of 1915-1916 a Genocide perpetrated against the Armenians? Why don’t the Turks also agree to the ICG report? You see, no matter how many commissions & committees are formed, Turks will not be satisfied unless their version is agreed to.

    Mr. Oktay… as I’ve said in my previous post, no one is blaming the current Turkish governments for committing a crime. It is the Ottoman Empire which you inherited that is being blamed. Recommend

  • Robert

    Dear Ahmed

    Do not be perturbed by the denialists who have attacked your article. This is quite a normal reaction, it happens whenever an article opposed to their constructed history is posted online.

    The direct evidence of the Armenian Genocide is to be found in all the archives of the world including the Turkish. All the archival evidence points to a “systematic attempt to exterminate a race”, which nowadays is referred to as Genocide.

    The circumstantial evidence is found in Turkey today – a land which is now over 99% Turkic/Moslem. Before the 13th century, it was the other way around-over 99% Christian and before 1915 had over 4 million indigenous Christians.

    The narrative that the Armenians rebelled etc, was used as a pretext for the deportations and massacres. In fact, Armenians in the Ottoman Army had been awarded for their bravery in both Gallipoli and Sarikamish for defending the Ottoman empire. The Armenians in the Russian Empire, as loyal Russian subjects were fighting the Ottomans, but this does not justify the wholesale deportation of women and children from the western and eastern parts of Anatolia. Many Jews fought with the allies against Germany during WW2 but this does not justify the Holocaust.

    The posts by Yuksel and David A. etc are an attempt to deny, trivialise and rationalise the Armenian Genocide. It’s a strategy of consolidating and reconciling the gains made by the genocidal campaign. The longer the denial campaign can be prolonged, the more the issue becomes historic and falls victim to the dust bin of history. The lands that were forcibly confiscated from the Armenians are today worth billions of dollas and make up a large part of Turkey’s prime real estate (including Incirlik NATO airbase). Much of Turkish culture today is derived from the Armenians. Facing the truth of the Armenian Genocide not only will result in financial pain for Turkey, but will also smash many of the myths which the Turkish nation has been founded upon. It is this latter consequence which the Turlish ultra-nationalists fear the most. Recommend

  • David A

    @Katia P

    Katia P, if Armenians strongly believe that their claim deserves the world-wide recognition as a genocide, there is a proper venue for doing so, International Courts ICC and ICJ in Hague. The procedure for doing so is for the Republic of Armenia or other Armenian plaintiffs to sue Turkey for genocide. Yet this is not a path pursued by Armenians worldwide, partly because Republic of Armenia is stuck between the rock and a hard place trying to get its border with Turkey opened while still maintaining the occupation of neighboring Azerbaijan and keeping the territorial claims to other neighboring states. Another reason, is because there is no legal or historical case for the Armenian claim, as the ‘genocide’ term was coined by UN in 1948, while Armenian side is trying to apply the term to 1915 simultaneously accusing modern ethnic descendants of no-longer-existing state.

    Instead, Armenian communities are involved in PAID lobbying by the special interest groups, pursuing various ways to intimidate Turkey or Turkish people. This racist, I must add, agenda is subplanted by general Turcophobic reflections, such as intimidating NBA basketball star Kobe Bryant for signing a promotion deal with a 77-year old major world airline, just because the name of it is “Turkish”. I hope you can try to look at the picture from the other side as well. Recommend

  • David A

    Ahmed Aziz, if mass resettlement forced by active military warfare is considered a genocide, then the same term shall apply to any civilian displacement in the course of war and just about any major war should be considered an act of genocide. As far as pictures, here are some pictures without a 100-year old questionable or fabricated historical content:

    http://www.khojaly.org/

    Why don’t the Armenians ever apologize or recognize this crime, despite their own National Hero and President admitting to it in references? With lack of any response on this, as well as ongoing aggressive policy pursued by Armenia, with territorial claims on half of Turkey, irredentist dreams of “Greater Armenia”, history of ASALA organization killing Turkish diplomats and civilians, makes it clear that Armenian agenda is not only about recognition, but more so about territorial expansion on the lands where they were never a majority. Considering that modern Armenia, the territory of which 100 years ago was 80% Muslim populated, is now 99.9% Armenian-populated, this should be a chilling reminder of what the true objective of these claims is. Recommend

  • FlowerPower

    @Refik Bek: I agree with you! The Christian nations over in Europe once used Christianty to commit horrible crimes as well!

    So if anything, religion has almost nothing to do with human nature, its a set of moral codes to live by. There are some good and some bad things about each religion, it usually comes down to interpretation. Recommend

  • Mark

    You are taking Armenian allegations at face value without applying critical thinking or learning the other side of the story. The facts are not that hard to see:
    Armenians took up arms against their own government. After a millennium of harmonious cohabitation, Armenians, schoe to resort to revolts, terrorism, and supreme treason, making territorial demands and causing countless Muslim/Turkish casualties, all of which triggered the TERESET (temporary resettlement of 1915).
    These facts do contradict with the embellished and falsified Armenian narrative, as seen in thr above artcile, which in turn, creates “cognitive dissonance” in Armenian people. This psychological trauma can be resolved in two ways:
    1) accept the facts and change your attitude accordingly, or
    2) ignore/dismiss the facts and demonize all dissenters.
    Most Armenians, unfortunately, seem to choose the latter, hence no closure after a century.
    BIAS IN THE TERM “ARMENIAN GENOCIDE”
    If one cherishes values like fairness, objectivity, truth, and honesty, then one should really use the term “Turkish-Armenian conflict”.
    Asking one “Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide” shows anti-Turkish bias. The question should be re-phrased: “What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?”
    Turks believe it was an inter communal warfare mostly fought by Turkish and Armenian irregulars, a civil war which is engineered, provoked, and waged by the Armenian revolutionaries, with active support from Russia, England, France, and others, all eyeing the vast territories of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, against a backdrop of a raging world war.
    Armenians, on the other hand, totally ignoring Armenian agitation, raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, and Turkish victims killed by Armenians, unfairly claim that it was a one way genoci
    VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING
    Those who take the Armenian “allegations” of genocide at face value seem to also ignore the following:
    1- Genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention (Like all proper laws, it is not retroactive to 1915.)
    2- Genocide verdict can only be given by a “competent court” after “due process” where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined.
    3- For a genocide verdict, the accusers must prove “intent” at a competent court and after due process. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, mis-representations, exaggerations, forgeries, and “other”.
    4- Such a “competent court” was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due process.)
    5- Genocide claim is political, not historical or factual. It reflects bias against Turks. Therefore, the term genocide must be used with the qualifier “alleged”, for scholarly objectivity and truth.
    HISTORY IS A MATTER OF SCHOLARSHIP, NOT CONSENSUS
    History is not a matter of “conviction, consensus, political resolutions, political correctness, or propaganda.” History is a matter of research, peer review, thoughtful debate, and honest scholarship. Even historians, by definition, cannot decide on a genocide verdict, which is reserved for a “competent court” with its legal expertise and due process.
    POLITICAL LYNCHING OF THE TURKS TODAY
    What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. Values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet. Unprovoked , unjustified, and unfair defamation of Turkey, in order to appease nagging Armenian activists runs counter to human rights , if not also western interests.
    Those who claim genocide verdict today, based on the much discredited Armenian evidence, are actually engaging in “conviction and execution of Turks without due process”, which is the definition of an omenous term in the dictionary: lynching.
    Isn’t it time to stop fighting the First World War dishonestly and give peace a real chance?Recommend

  • http://rofl-copter.com Eliran D

    Instead of arguing pointlessly, can anyone give me solid proof (whatever you speak does not equal solid proof) that this whole history thing is correct? I’ve seen too much here.
    Also, why the hell should Turkey be responsible for something the Ottomans did??Recommend

  • G. Din

    @Yuksel Oktay
    “…Ahmed Aziz, judging from the photo of his in the article, must be a young chap who probably does not know what he is talking about,…”
    This is an astounding assertion. So, all young “chaps” have no business researching their subject and draw their own conclusions because, thanks to their age, they lack intellect as well? You don’t need to be wizened, musty old fellow to study history!

    “…but wants to make an impression for himself, forgetting that he is insulting probabaly the only real ally that Pakistan has. …”
    So, sir, are you claiming that being “only real ally that Pakistan has” exempts Turkey from being indicted for a horrific crime that all but they and their “real allies” have been crying hoarse for years for redress?
    Sir, you don’t seem to have learnt any thing in those 45 years!Recommend

  • http://www.pakspectator.com Sana Saleem

    Very Very Interesting and Nice Piece !Recommend

  • FlowerPower

    @Turks: Well if you want to present your side of the story so badly to the UN then you need to do so, but I’m sorry not even the USA is going to believe you.

    You want this issue solved then you need to go to other archives instead of just your own! You need multiple sources provided not just the Turkish Version or the Armenian Version.

    Trust me I don’t just look at Armenian Sources, I look at Arabic Sources, European Sources, and American Sources.

    If you just look at the Turkish side then you’re doomed to fail in the real world and with other nations. Also you will suffer from something that i like to call, “Close minded-ness”.

    Nobody is against Islam here, and nobody is against Turkishness, we’re against this crime against humanity!

    Also Turks are not better than anyone in the world, neither are the Americans, Russians or anyone else that is nationlistic. Recommend

  • jimmi

    Turkey has a very bloody history of conquest against Eastern Europe and Arab states.
    Most of the Ottoman empire was controlled by fear and brutal retributions.Recommend

  • Albert Kar-ian

    I deeply congratulate Mr Aziz. I am absolutely sure that his criticizers will one day regret what they have written, especially when the Turkish government will inevitably acknowledge the Armenian Genocide because truth will triumph sooner or later.Recommend

  • IZ

    First of all, I would like to commend Mr Aziz for bringing to light this terrible episode from history. However there are two points I would like to make:

    In the interest of historical accuracy I would like to point out that the Hitler quote above was alleged to have been made in 1939 when he was justifying the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Poland to create lebensraum (living room) for Germans – it was not referring to the holocaust per se, but the eradication of Slavic and Jewish Poles. The full quote is:

    “It’s a matter of indifference to me what a weak western European civilisation will say about me. I have issued the command — and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formation in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks to-day of the annihilation of the Armenians?”

    .
    2. The second point is that as important as it is to recognize and acknowledge the atrocities committed in Turkey a century ago, perhaps it may be more important for us as Pakistanis to acknowledge the atrocities committed in East Pakistan 40 years ago. In scale the slaughter was of similar size (some argue that it was even higher). Its worth remembering what our then President and COAS had to say about the policy of genocide in East Pakistan: “”Kill three million of them, and the rest will eat out of our hands.”Recommend

  • H. Der Stepanian

    @Ergun Kirlikovali:
    Mr. Ergun,
    You should reasearch at least a little bit before you pretend to know so much about something you know so little about.
    The term Genocide was first created and used by Mr. Raphael Lemkin.
    Raphael Lemkin (June 24, 1900 – August 28, 1959) was a Polish lawyer of Jewish descent. He is best known for his work against genocide, a word he coined in 1943 from the root words genos (Greek for family, tribe, or race) and -cide (Latin for killing).[1] He first used the word in print in Axis Rule in Occupied Europe: Laws of Occupation – Analysis of Government – Proposals for Redress (1944).
    In 1933 Lemkin made a presentation to the Legal Council of the League of Nations conference on international criminal law in Madrid, for which he prepared an essay on the Crime of Barbarity as a crime against international law. The concept of the crime, which later evolved into the idea of genocide, was based on the Armenian Genocide and prompted by the experience of Assyrians[2] massacred in Iraq during the 1933 Simele massacre.[3
    So before embarking in giving lectures on the meaning and leagal aspects of Genocide first you should know that the term itself was created to describe the Armenian Genocide by Ottoman Turkey.
    But knowing you Turks, I would not be surprised if you contest that Mr. Lemkin ever existed. It must be that the Armenians created Mr. Lemkin and the Genocide term to cover up what they did to temselves. They massacered themselves and deported temselves so that they can blame the poor, the inocent Turks who were amazed at what these Armenians were doing during the WWI.Recommend

  • David A

    @Armenians and Ahmad Aziz

    Author’s fabricated claim starts right from the title “MillionS killed…”. The population of Ottoman Armenians in 1897 was 1.497 million, the worldwide Armenian population today is about 10-11 million. So how did all 1.5 million get killed?

    Even the invented claim of 1.5 million Armenian deaths (which is false according to Encyclopedia Brittanica), made up by Armenians to strengthen the impact of their anti-Turkish defamation, still does not qualify the title “Millions” used by author.

    The Armenian claim, especially used for political purposes of defamation, racism and land grab hopes, abuses the word genocide and insults all people who truly deserve recognition of genocides against them.Recommend

  • David A

    @FlowerPower

    Let’s talk about the ARF Dashnak party archives in Massachusetts inaccessible to anyone. In contrast, Ottoman archives were open for research in Turkey for years now. I hope you can look at the story as a bystander seeking the truth. Recommend

  • H. Der Stepanian

    @Ergun Kirlikovali:
    So how would you explain the massacers of Adana of 1895? The Armenians were siding with who the Chineese? How about the massacers of 1900, the Armenians were siding whit who the Mexicans?
    If you are just writing to find reasons to justify the horrific acts of the Ottomans, I guess you can say or claim anthing.
    By your account you are pointing out that there were Armenians, millions of them living in eastern Turkey. You are finding and justifing your reason for getting rid of them, OK.
    What happened to the Armenian graveyards, churches, cities, shrines, historic sites of eastern Turkey. How come you can not see any of these but a handful in utter destructive state. Because it is the Turkish governments effort to completely destroy and rewrite its history by eliminating all traces of Armenians from those places. Just as there was no Kurdish issue until a few years ago.
    Oh, I guess that by staging detailed, coriographed reconstruction of a few churches will make the world belive that you truly are a tolerant nation. Good luck! Recommend

  • H. Der Stepanian

    @Aksal:
    Read any other book written by a non Turk and you will see that you have been fed lies and misinformation by your government and the texbooks that you have studied in school.
    Turkey should admit of what was done and get on with living in a civilized world like everyone else. The paranoya, that everybody wants to divide Turkey and destroy it should be left for to the sick men of Europe.Recommend

  • munger

    There are so many one sided, wrong statements in this article:
    “one of the basic reasons behind it was Ottoman INSECURITY that the Armenian Christian subjects will support the Russians pushing on in the eastern front of the war. ” For example it was NOT insecurity, but the killing non-Armenians in eastern Anatolia before and during WWI by of Armenian terrorists and even Armenian regiments under Russian army that prompted the relocation order. The result was a tragedy (especially when you hear individuals) but NOT a genocide! Indeed there has been atrocities, and Ottoman Government had tried and punished many of the responsible people.

    What will any government do (even today), if a MINORITY (Armenians were not in majority in Eastern Anatolia even before 1915) group took up arms against its country during a major war, actively fighting with enemy army, with the declared intention of (Armenian Dashnak Party platform) separation? Armenians were very proud of their militia before 1915. Their own Prime Minister has decried in 1920s how they brought this disaster onto themselves. There is NO similarity to what happened to Jews.

    There is not enough space and I do do not want to bore everyone with all the WRONG propaganda statements in this article.

    Armenian propaganda has convinced many in the West with their lies, despite many reputable, independent historians refuting those genocide claims. Armenians have never dared to open their archives or go to a court to prove unfounded claims of genocide.

    Do not judge 95 year old history with 21st century values. Just because there are more articles citing the Armenian sufferings does not mean the other people in the region did not suffer (several hundred thousand other ethnicities were murdered by Armenians prior to 1915).Recommend

  • MihranK

    If anyone is interested in knowing what really happened in Khojaly,please read the link below.

    KHOJALY: The chronicle of unseen forgery and falsification

    http://www.xocali.net/EN/ayaz-mutalibov.htmlRecommend

  • FlowerPower

    @Albert Kar-ian: I agree, I just don’t see how this could be hidden forever, it can’t be, especailly since we have documents and photos proving it! Recommend

  • http://www.turkla.com Ergun Kirlikovali

    The Armenian falsifiers and their fellow Turk haters (who may come in any nationality) try to ignore the siz T’s of the Turkish Armenian conflict and subscribe to a racist and dishonest version of history promoted by Armenians. You cannot assign all the guilt to one party and all the suffering to another and call yourself respectable. You must read this interview to educat6e yourself:

    http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2010/12/3194-turkish-armenian-conflict-what-now.html?utmsource=feedburner&utmmedium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ArmenianGenocideResourceCenter+%28Armenian+Genocide+Resource+Center%29Recommend

  • David K.

    @David A:
    That 1.47 number is a lie by genocide deniers based on dubious sources in order to make it look like there weren’t 1.5 millions killed in 1915-1918. As a matter of fact, there were about 2 million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire and 1.5 million were killed during the genocide.Recommend

  • Yuksel Oktay

    Dear Editor,

    I am glad that Ahmed Aziz’s commentary on the Armenian tragedy, although full of misconceptions, has sparked a dialog among the diverse readers of The Express Tribune with the International Herald Tribune. This issue must be resolved if we all want a peaceful world for our children and grandchildren, not harbour hatred which impacts the lives of Turkis-Americans and Turks and Armenians everywhere. There is too much needless hate, which should be eliminated, as has been presented in a new book by a Palestinian doctor who has lost his daughters during the Gazze operation in 2009, “I do not Hate.”

    First, I would like to respond to some of the comments to my first rebuttal of the article. Judging also from the short list of books that Ahmed indicated, he has to do a lot of reading and come and visit the Turkish archives open to everyone before he can pass a judgement on what happened in 1915. Ara Kociyan, the Director of Armenian language newspaper Jamanak published in Istanbul, presented a balanced view of the Armenian issue and the events of 1915 in a book published in 1991 in the following manner:

    “During the First World War, Turkey was in the danger of being swallowed up by foreign nations. To achieve this, they endeavored to break up the country internally by brainwashing some Armenians with the promise of an independent Armenia. They gave them money and weapons, encouring them to start guerrila and underground activities. The Ottoman state, in order to preserve Anatolia, forced Armenians living inplaces where guerrilla attacks took place to move elshere. At that time, unfortunately, we must confess that the innocent suffered along wth the quilty, but even in those conditions, the Turks did not witheld help from their neighbors. Unfortunately, people still exist from abroad who seek opportunity to realize this dream, people who have not learned their lesson from History” Turkey, P. 92.

    Second, I will be happy to send a copy of a booklet prepared in 2005, to Ahmed Aziz and otehrs, presenting an overview of the issue looking at both sides with a list of 100 books on the Armenian issue (34 pages), called, “1915, the 90th Anniversary of the Battle of Dardanelles in West Anatolia and Rebellions and Resettlement of Armenians in East Anatolia.”Recommend

  • David A

    @Mihran K
    Here is a far more verifiable and honest Armenian reference, This is from the leader of ASALA, Karabakh war commander and National Hero of Armenia, Monte Melkonian:

    Markar Melkonian. My Brother’s Road: An American’s Fateful Journey to Armenia. New York: I.B. Tauris, 2005, p. 213:

    “At about 11:00 p.m. the night before, some 2,000 Armenian fighters had advanced through the high grass on three sides of Khojalu, forcing the residents out through the open side to the east. By the morning of February 26, the refugees had made it to the eastern cusp of Mountainous Karabagh and had begun working their way downhill, toward safety in the Azeri city of Agdam, about six miles away. There, in the hillocks and within sight of safety, Mountainous Karabagh soldiers had chased them down. “They just shot and shot,” a refugee woman, Raisa Aslanova, testified to a human Rights Watch investigator. The Arabo fighters had then unsheathed the knives they had carried on their hips for so long, and began stabbing.

    Now, the only sound was the wind whistling through dry grass, a wind that was too early yet to blow away the stench of corpses.

    Monte crunched over the grass where women and girls lay scattered like broken dolls. “No discipline”, he muttered. He knew the significance of the day’s date: it was the run-up to the fourth anniversary of the anti-Armenian pogrom in the city of Sumgait. Khojalu had been a strategic goal, but it had also been an act of revenge.” Recommend

  • David A

    @David K
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Z59wTl4AuI4C&pg=PA54

    “In the mid-1990s, there were approximately 1.3 million Armenians in Ottoman Empire”
    Imperialism, evangelism and the Ottoman Armenians, 1878-1896
    Jeremy Salt, Psychology Press, 1993

    I have doubts that this source has any reason to be biased or attempts to deny atrocities. Recommend

  • zaigham

    you read one may be one or two books and reached the conclusion that it was a genocide…
    the holocaust got established during the Nürnberg trials…
    is it the same case with Armenian genocide?
    ever heard of Malta trials?
    allies had all the power to establish this fact…
    why did they fail to recognize it?

    I remember our “selective” history
    books at school. The Ottoman Empire
    for us Pakistanis has been imprinted
    in our minds as the Last Golden
    Caliphate which is simply not true.

    The last Ottomans were pretty corrupt. But without doubt ottomans were the last great dynasty of Muslim rulers.

    Even if there were a genocide, the responsibility lies with ‘young turks’ because after around 1909 the last sultan was literally out of business. And even before that Ottomans were carrying out extensive reforms which also dealt with alleviating the status of minorities. You seriously need to see the other side of picture. Recommend

  • zaigham

    @Raqib Ali:
    the Roma/Gypsy genocide is not acknowledged in Germany on the basis that it was not established during the Nürnberg trials. While they might compensate the third generation of Holocaust survivors, they refuse to entertain any queries regarding the Roma Genocide.Recommend

  • Tyrone

    The author has stirred up a hornets nest!

    Turkey can claim that the massacre was exaggerated, but can it rubbish these points about modern Turkey?
    – Suppression and limitation of the Orthodox faith in the country. In secular Turkey all Orthodox seminaries have been closed.
    – Illegal occupation of N Cyprus, only Turkey recognises the ‘state’
    – Atrocities against the Kurds

    Ironically Armenians are in a bloody war with Azebaijan over a sliver of land known as Nagorno-Karabakh.
    Interestingly we support Azerbaijan in return for support on Kashmir.
    http://dawnnews.tv/2004/07/09/top6.htm

    Those who say the EU has no right to delay Turkey’s membership need to look at the 3 points I’ve mentioned.

    Recommend

  • Ahmed Aziz

    @zaigham:
    @Yuksel Oktay:

    It is an unfair assumption that the books that I recommend to read are the only ones that I have done my research from and it is an unfair assumption that if I look young in my picture that I do not know what I am writing. In this short space i can only recommend certain reading material. As I have suggested before, readers should read from all different sources like survivor stories, archival documents, photographic evidence and other sources. Evidence exists!! The shortlist is an indicative biography.

    Mr Oktay please send me the list, my email address is on my page.

    That being said, I should say that I have made my statements on evidence I have seen and the readers who are interested in this should do research. I cannot cover all genocides in one article. I stand by what I have said. The Genocide did happen and the reasons justifying it or semantics about calling it a genocide or not are not valid. As I have said before Nothing justifies Genocide. Recommend

  • Alexander

    I congratulate Ahmed Aziz for tackling issues that provoke debate and scholarship. It is not the role of the author, nor of this forum, to establish historical theses. The author has encapsuated his topic in a succinct way, prompting those interested to conduct their own research and arrive at their own cocnlcusions.

    When an authority – internationally recognised government or not – plans and executes the physical extermination of a particular because they are members of that group, that is genocide. Unfortunately, the lack of study of this phenomenon has led to it being repeated tie and again in human history.

    Readers shoud keep in mind one fact above all: religious belief is always the tool of genocidaires. Religion is abused by those who seek to violate basic humanity.

    Between 1914 and 1924, Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians were deported and massacred by the tens of thousands within the Ottoman Empire, and beyond its borders. The authorities of the time were the Ittihad ve Terrakke i Cemayeti (Committee for Union and Progress; CUP) and their successors, the Kemalists. The best evidence comes from the Turks themselves: the war crimes trials held in Turkey after World War One.

    The numbers of indigenous Christians who died or were expelled or were forcibly converted to Islam is not the issue. The issue at stake is the responsibility of the Turkish state in the deaths of millions of its own citizens. Until the Turkish establishment comes to terms with its own history, just as Germany has endeavoured to do, it will not be able to find a lasting peace.Recommend

  • FlowerPower

    Its one thing for the Turks to claim that the Western Armenians were helping the Russians out, but when they started accusing the Assyarians and Greeks too, they completely lost me. They use the exact same excuse with the Assyarians and Greeks. In fact the Assyarians would have rather of used Russia as a last resort, so its only natural that they chose Iran over Russia as a safe haven. They also murdered the Assyarian leader after he pleded with the Russians to save his people from exstinction, the Russians just ignored him.

    I’ve heard of other horrible incidences where the Turks went into villages and just killed women and children at random, burnt them to death which is clearly murder in my eyes. Also what did those women do to deserve rape? There is nothing more offensive to me as a woman than being violated! I find it offinsive that someone would take the rape of innocent women so lightly along with stabbing pregnant women, along with ripping their babies out of their wombs and smashing them against the wall! That is not civil war, that is murder! Recommend

  • retro

    Where is Pakistan’s resolution recognising the genocide of the Armenians?Recommend

  • http://www.falsegenocide.com Ergun Kirlikovali

    GENOCIDE ALLEGATIONS IGNORE “THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT”

    While some in unsuspecting public may be forgiven for taking the blatant and ceaseless Armenian propaganda at face value and believing Armenian falsifications merely because they are repeated so often, it is difficult and painful for someone like me, the son of Turkish survivors on both maternal and paternal sides.

    Those seemingly endless “War years” of 1912-1922 brought wide-spread death and destruction on to all Ottoman citizens. No Turkish family was left touched, mine included. Those nameless, faceless Turkish victims are killed for a second time today with politically motivated and baseless charges of Armenian genocide.

    ALLEGATIONS OF ARMENIAN GENOCIDE ARE RACIST AND DISHONEST HISTORY

    They are racist because they ignore the Turkish dead: about 3 million during WWI; more than half a million of them at the hands of Armenian nationalists.

    And the allegations of Armenian genocide are dishonest because they simply dismiss

    the six T’s of the Turkish-Armenian conflict:

    1) TUMULT (as in numerous Armenian armed uprisings between 1882 and 1920)

    2) TERRORISM (by well-armed Armenian nationalists and militias victimizing Ottoman-Muslims between 1882-1920)

    3) TREASON (Armenians joining the invading enemy armies as early as 1914 and lasting until 1921)

    4) TERRITORIAL DEMANDS (where Armenians were a minority, not a majority, attempting to establish Greater Armenia, the would-be first apartheid of the 20th Century with a Christian minority ruling over a Muslim majority )

    5) TURKISH SUFFERING AND LOSSES (i.e. those caused by the Armenian nationalists: 524,000 Muslims, mostly Turks, met their tragic end at the hands of Armenian revolutionaries during WWI, per Turkish Historical Society. This figure is not to be confused with about 2.5 million Muslim dead who lost their lives due to non-Armenian causes during WWI. Grand total: more than 3 million, according to Prof. Justin McCarthy.)

    6) TERESET (temporary resettlement) triggered by the first five T’s above and amply documented as such; not to be equated to the Armenian misrepresentations as genocide.) Recommend

  • Asdig Magar

    @David A:
    David, do not make up things as you go along. Only some of the Ottoman archives are open in Turkey today. Guess which ones? You are right, only the ones that justifies Turkey’s point of view. Anything else, and good luck to you. You will never find it.
    But what a public stunt. Turkey can claim that their archives are open!Recommend

  • Sevgin Oktay

    In all this discourse, it is easy to get lost in the woods loosing sight of the forest, so to speak. We should all remember that during Holocaust, Jews were killed for who they were, not for what they did. True, some Armenians were also killed but not for who they were but for what they did. To that we must also add that just as many or more Turks and Kurds were killed in trying to stop what the Armenians were doing, which is never mentioned. I rest my case, and challenge anyone who can attest to the contrary.Recommend

  • David A

    @Alexander

    You said: “The issue at stake is the responsibility of the Turkish state in the deaths of millions of its own citizens”?

    What do you mean by “Turkish state”? The Armenian claim applies to 1915, while the Republic of Turkey was established in 1923. Why should Republic of Turkey be responsible for what one ethnic subjects of Ottoman Empire claim against another? The entire claim against Turkey is driven by ethnic hatred rather than any sense of justice.

    Again, the figure artificially inflated by Armenian scholars from the initial Britannica estimate of 300,000 is now 1.5 million. That is, while actual population of Armenians in Ottoman Empire was slightly below 1.5 million at the time, that means every single Armenian must have been killed. How do we then have 11-12 million Armenians worldwide?Recommend

  • Ibrahim Kurtulus

    While there is always mention of so called 1 millons dead Armenians during the events, no one mentions the more than a million Turks that were massacered by the armenians and their protectors to create an etnically pure Armenian state within the occupied Ottoman lans.Recommend

  • Yuksel Oktay

    This is my 3rd and final comment on the unfortunate article by Ahmed Aziz, specificly a response to the comments made by someone, noted below.

    All young chaps have the right to research any subject and write about it but after learning the truth and judging all sides of the issue. Ahmed Aziz begins with stating that “Millions of Armenians were killed.” This is the biggest lie of the 20th century. Most everyone believes that the best estimate of the Armenian population in the Ottoman Empire in 1915 was around 1.3 million (SS Aya book gives different estimates from various sources, including 1.2 million in the New York Times (page 303, Genocide of Turth). Based on an extensive research conducted at several archives including the Ameican archives, Prof. Nursen Mazici wrote back in 2005 that the population of Armenians in 1919 in countries where they migrated before, during and after 1915, including 35,80 in the US, and 70,000 in Turkey, was aorund 880,000 (Vatan newspaper, 1 May 2005.) SS Aya gives a figure of 1,080,000 for the number of Armenians living in 1919, p. 307, Genocide of Truth. At most, the number of Armenians who lost their lives during the conflict for a number of reasons was probably around 400,000, which has been stated to be 300,000 by Kamuran Gurun in his book. If 1.5 million Armenians were killed in 1915, where did the 9 to 10 million Armenians who are living in the world today came from? It is sad to give numbers and the only reason for stating this is because of the false information that has been embedded in the minds of people, including Ahmed Aziz, who may not have a clear idea about what happened almost 100 years ago, especially when the uprisings and the massacres by Armenians are ignored…,

    Being a friend of Turkey does not exempt one from criticising the country, no, but one needs to be truthful after a carefull review of all materials on the subject, which Ahmed Aziz has not done.. As far as the final comment goes, it is the same old attitude, insulting when you know you are not being objective and truthful.

    Yuksel Oktay

    @Yuksel Oktay
    “…Ahmed Aziz, judging from the photo of his in the article, must be a young chap who probably does not know what he is talking about,…”
    This is an astounding assertion. So, all young “chaps” have no business researching their subject and draw their own conclusions because, thanks to their age, they lack intellect as well? You don’t need to be wizened, musty old fellow to study history!

    “…but wants to make an impression for himself, forgetting that he is insulting probabaly the only real ally that Pakistan has. …”
    So, sir, are you claiming that being “only real ally that Pakistan has” exempts Turkey from being indicted for a horrific crime that all but they and their “real allies” have been crying hoarse for years for redress?
    Sir, you don’t seem to have learnt any thing in those 45 years!
    .Recommend

  • FlowerPower

    @Ahmed Aziz: Thank you for bringing this issue up, the more we talk about it the more we can protect those in the Middle East that can’t protect themselves.

    @Turks: You need to look in the archives where the historians are allowed to look! You can’t just look at the ones that are opened!

    Remember the lie will last nomore.

    Also if you deny this crime, you’re only adding to the responsiblity, I mean come on that’s not right to lock people up, or assonate someone just because they have a different claim. That’s not right!

    So stop locking up the historians that are allowed in the deep archives that citizens aren’t allowed in and listen to them! Recommend

  • http://www.armenians-1915.blogspot.com Ergun Kirlikovali

    Ahmed Aziz,

    The fact that you assert that it was genocide based on what you reviewed shows how hopelessly uninformed you are on this subject. You should know that there is one and only one way to declare an event is genocide: via “competent tribunal” after “dur process”. This is according to articles 4-9 of the UN Convention on genocide in 1948, ratified in 1951.

    Genocide cannot be decided by
    a) historians
    b) sociologists
    c) psychologists
    d) any other branch of scholarship
    e) journalists
    f) columnists
    g) oped writers
    h) activists
    i) clergy
    j) others…

    They can be expert witnesses to the xtent that they can withstand court scrutiny, but no giver of final verdict.

    There is one and only one authority: “competent tribunal” as International Court of Justice in den Haag established by the UN.

    Why is it so?

    Because novice people like you can easily be impressed one way or another. But at a court of law, you must make you case to the satisfaction of legal scruitny, counter arguments, witnessess and cross examination, just like it was done in Nuremberg in 1945.

    “I researched and am convinced that ot was genocide, trust me” is no legal argument. Then you must find a convincong argument agaisnt half a million Muslims, mostly Turkish, victims of Armenian revolutionaries armed with Russian-made Mosin rifles. (Have you ever heard the term Mosin in your “extended” research of a few hours?) Recommend

  • MIKE ADAJIAN

    THANK YOU, MR. AHMED AZIZ,
    for speaking up about this despicable crime
    & the shameful suppression of this story.

    To ALL who suffer oppression !

    To ALL who work for justice & peace !Recommend

  • Assdig Maagar

    It is amusing to see that the comments of Mr. Ergun Kirlikovali (The premier Turkish paid Armenian hater) and the comments of Mark, are one and the same to the commas and dots and the meaningless enumerations as the six T’s etc. Is this from a manual that the government of Turkey is passing around to the individuals who are paid to spread their denial camaine?
    According to the European archives, the number of Armenian Genocide victims is 2.4 million not the 1.5 conservative figure quoted elsewhere.Recommend

  • MIKE ADAJIAN

    The Republic of Turkey has done a grave disservice to its citizens by using its educational & legal systems to attempt to bury evidence of these disgraceful crimes.

    But light is shining into this darkness & healing has begun.

    Witness Hrant + Dink, Elif Shafak, Taner Akcam, Orhan Pamuk & the many Turks who have taken their words & courage into their hearts.

    A copy & paste PR campaign cannot cover up the truth.

    It can only cover those foolish enough to attempt it in deeper shame.

    Winston Churchill was right about many things, including this:

    The truth is incontrovertible.

    Malice may attack it.

    Ignorance may deride it.

    But in the end, there it is.Recommend

  • http://www.turkla.com Ergun Kirlikovali

    The following quotes form 1917 and 1923 bu eyewitnesses should give even the most hardened anti-Turk a clue about truth:

    1917

    “…For fourteen days, I followed the Euphrates; it is completely out of the question that I during this time would not have seen at least some of the Armenian corpses, that according to Mrs. Stjernstedt’s statements, should have drifted along the river en masse at that time. A travel companion of mine, Dr. Schacht, was also travelling along the river. He also had nothing to tell when we later met in Baghdad… …In summary, I think that Mrs. Stjernstedt, somewhat uncritically, has accepted the hair-raising stories from more or less biased sources, which formed the basis for her lecture…”

    Source: H.J. Pravitz, A Swedish officer, Nya Dagligt Allehanda, 23 April, 1917 issue
    (A Swedish Newspaper published from 1859 to 1944)

    1923

    “…In some towns containing ten Armenian houses and thirty Turkish houses, it was reported that 40,000 people were killed, about 10,000 women were taken to the harem, and thousands of children left destitute; and the city university destroyed, and the bishop killed. It is a well- known fact that even in the last war the native Christians, despite the Turkish cautions, armed themselves and fought on the side of the Allies. In these conflicts, they were not idle, but they were well supplied with artillery, machine guns and inflicted heavy losses on their enemies….”

    Source: Lamsa, George M., a missionary well known for his research on Christianity,
    The Secret of the Near East, The Ideal Press, Philadelphia 1923, p 133Recommend

  • Yuksel Oktay

    Dear Ahmed Aziz,

    Thank you for your response. Although I had mentioned after my third post that it was the final one, after reading your response, I thought I could offer the following additional comments.

    When I wrote the three responses, I was either en route from Istanbul to the States, or away from my home and therefore did not have access to my files. I will forward to you the 34 page booklet on 1915 when I return to my home in Istanbul next week. It was first published in 2005 which needs a good update.

    I read 3 of the 5 books that you have listed and written reviews of them. I will also send these to you later. On Robert Fisk and his book, “The Great War for Civilisation – The Conquest of the Middle East” is first a misnomer. Chapter 10, “The First Holocaust (referring to the alleged Armenian genocide” does not belon in the book and full of fabricated and distorted views. Robert Fisk is a war correspondant, and a very good one, and has written on his 30 years of experience in many wars from Afghanistan to Iraq, based on his eye witness knowledge when he was based in Lebanon (living like a Sultan, I suppose). But what he wrote in Chapter 10 is what he learned from others without the slightest idea what was going on in 1915. Why include this in the book of his experience as a correspondant for the British newspaper Independent. The map that he has included in his book on Page 317 is the same map that hangs on the wall of the Armenian Quarter in Jerusalem, which is identical to a map that Prof Hikmet Ozdemir presented at a conference, but identifying the region, towns and villages on the map as where Armenians revolted, more than 27 places. Robert Fisk does not mention any of these. As I have stated before, you have read books that tell only one side of the story, ignoring the true facts, and fabricating over the years. More about this in my review of the book which I will forward to you (and others if anyone is interested) next week from my home computer.

    In the meantime, I am sure New Zealanders (and Australians) will educate you on the Battle of Gallipoli (also covered in my 1915 booklet) when they came 10,000 miles in 1915 to fight an enemy that they did not know, for the glory of Great Britain and lost, but gained their pride as a nation. Robert Fisk even writes about the Dardanelles in his book, only one sentence, and refers to the Australians only.. I hope you get a good education at the New Zealand University, with inquiry on all sides of issues.

    Best regards.

    Yuksel Oktay

    Great War for Civilization: The conquest of the Middle East – By Robert Fisk (Chapter 10) Recommend

  • J. Ndluli

    As a follow-up to the above discussion on ‘modern’ Turkey, why not look at some modern day examples of its approach to the world:
    (1) What about the disturbing and painful event which happened on Christmas Day in the small church of Saint Synesios in the town of Rizokarpaso in northern (Turkish occupied) Cyprus. The clergy and worshippers were literally thrown out of their place of worship, by Turkish police goons.
    (2) Ask the Kurds on their opinion, of not being allowed to use their native tongue in schools.
    (3) What of the Christian school on Heybeliada island near Istanbul – it was a major center of theological learning for more than a century until it was closed by Turkey authorities in 1971.
    (4) How about the destruction & theft of Church artifacts in northern (Turkish occupied) Cyprus. (Documented by Interpol).

    FYI – The USA passed the Armenian Genocide Resolution (March 5, 2010), which acknowledges the historical facts.Recommend

  • http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com Sukru Server Aya

    I sent you my comments yesterday. Hope you received will post. If lost advise so I can write again… Pakistani writer and commentators are making a HUGE mistake by being taken in so easily. Regards S S AyaRecommend

  • FlowerPower

    @Sukru Server Aya: Yah I wish it was a mistake, but I’m afraid the Pakistani is not joking.

    If this were so then why would he waste his time writing this artical? I mean do you exspect us to be anti Turkish or pro Turkish? I mean what is the point to you making us forget, I’m not falling for that genocide denial policy that the government is trying to spead all over the place.

    People in the Middle East still remember the crusiades hundreds and thousands of years before, so what makes you think everyone’s going to forget this, they won’t!

    Stop killing the Armenians! Recommend

  • Robert

    Dear Sukru

    It must really hurt when a person of Pakastani origin has decided to research the truth about the events of 1915 and concludes that it was genocide. Turkish denial of the Armenian Genocide relies to large a degree on the ignorance of the Turkish populous, as well as the religious sentinent of other countries such as Pakistan etc. In regards to the western countries, Turkish denial relies on economic and political blackmail. But as many Muslims are becoming more and more educated, they are embarking on self reflection and self criticism. Truth is becoming more valued and injustice is being more widely recognised as having universal consequences for all peoples regardless of race or religion. However, there are always sections of the elite which have a vested interest in the denial campaign, so they are never willing to accept the truth even though they know it so well!Recommend

  • http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com Sukru Server Aya

    Dear Pakistani young generation 1- From the moment I entered Pakistan in 1967, until 1983 when my import of various Pakistan made machine tools had to be stopped because of Afgan transport interruption, I have been to Pakistan so many time and I was welcomed as a brother from the very first day. When I was crossing the border at Lahore to Firouzbourg the Commander of the border post stopped me and my wife to have tea and talk about Ataturk and Mohammed Iqbal, who was the greatest support in Mustafa Kemal’s fight againts imperialism. 2- Gentlemen, how easily can you be brainwashed by very few “selected sources” not reading your own author on the subject and wonderful book “Lies, Lies and More Lies” http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2009/06/2894-free-e-book-lies-lies-and-more.html 3- My book “The Genocide of Truth” is on internet since early 2008 and has been downloaded by over 5000 people, you can download or print right away or ARE YOU SCARED of TRUTH or IRRESPONSIBLE TO SIDE WITH LIES? http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2010/12/3189-genocide-of-truth-continues-but.html and http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2008/04/2429-new-e-book-genocide-of-truth-based.html Gentlemen, this book was the result of 30.000 pages of reading with over 2000 verbatim excerpts from ARMENIAN and ANTI-TURKISH or NEUTRAL sources. No one could refute ONE WORD. By this time (my second English book just launched) my reading is over 50.000 pages and you can read excerpts or summaries under posting 3189. My grand son aged Ahmed Aziz’s ALL sources are “selected-biased and extremely few”. I advise him to read Armenian heroes or writers’s book, all available on the same blog site, such as “Pastermadjian, Lalaian, Dasnabedian, Katchaznuni, Nassibian, etc.” and read the Armenian memorandum to Paris conference 1919. If you start today it may take you not less than 5 years TO SEE THE BOTTOM of THE ICEBERG OF this WORLD CHARLATANISM. Don’t be surprised, “the decent persons in the world Turks, Armenians, Dutch, Americans, French etc” are fighting against CROOKS DEFENDİNG TRUTH. We have room for decency, and global ethics, but no room for “faiths or nationalities” or fanatics! It is a fight of LOGIC – TRUTH and COURAGE TO DEFEND against swindlers, which exist in every community. I am speaking of documented solid facts and person’s intelligence. I am not referring to slippery Muslim brotherhood, nor reminding Ahmed Aziz to learn the gold donations by his grand grandfathers sent to Turks in their last breath fight against imperalists. I doubt if you know the inspiration of modern Turkey over Cinnah when Pakistan was founded. Didn’t you hear the names I just mentioned above? You decide gentlemen, which side you join before “approving murder of 10.000 persons EVERY day for FIVE MONTHS and burying them in stadium size graves dug by hand shovels” and which graves have not been ever found! Read “Reno Evening Gazette” of Nov.14,1915 and judge if you haven’t been ALL DUPED! It is the first time that I see my Pakistani brothers cheated so easily on something they don’t read and learn from the honorable M. Aktar Shaikh who spent several years in Turkish archives and is a most respected scholar and man of literature. Find and learn from him and his book before you commit such a mistake. What a pity if you do not know his contributions to Turkish-Pakistani brotherhood (like myself).Your forgetting Mohammad Iqbal’s attachment and support of the modern Turkey has NO EXCUSE! Huda Hafez!
    Sukru S. Aya, Istanbul 22.1.2011Recommend

  • http://www.turkla.com Kirlikovali

    2005

    “…From 1911 to 1923, the Ottoman Empire and the people of Turkey participated in five long, hard, and destructive wars. These were the Tripolitanian War / Trablusgarb Harbi / Türk Italyan Harbı (1911-1912), the two Balkan Wars (1912-1913), World War I (1914-1918), and the Turkish War of National Liberation (1918-1923). To most Turkish people who lived through that era, these wars were really only one, the Seferberlik, or period of mobilization, which went on continuously throughout these years.

    During these wars, the entire infrastructure of life in the Ottoman Empire was destroyed. Fields were left barren and uncultivated; roads and railroad lines were destroyed and their equipment wrecked; harbors and quays were blown up by repeated bombing, and many of the people living nearby were killed; Istanbul and the other great cities of the empire were partially destroyed by bombing, bombarding and great fires. The entire nation, thus, was for all practical purposes destroyed. One of the greatest miracles of Atatürk’s leadership during and after the Turkish War of National Liberation was the manner in which he was able to raise the Turkish people from this wreckage and lead them to revive and reconstruct what became the Turkish Republic.

    In the midst of all this destruction, no fewer than 30 percent, one third, of all the people who lived in the Ottoman Empire at the start of the war died. In the war zones, Macedonia and Thrace, western Anatolia, northeastern Turkey and southeastern Turkey, that percentage was as high as sixty or even seventy percent, much higher than any other country that was involved in these wars. No-one was counting, so it is very difficult to give actual figures, but perhaps no fewer than four million people died in the lands of the Ottoman Empire during these wars, and these were people of all races and religions, all ethnic origins, they were Muslims, Jews and Christians, they were Turks and Armenians, Arabs and Greeks, and many more…”

    Source: From “The Ottoman Holocaust”; a lecture delivered by Stanford J. Shaw (1930-2006, Professor of Modern Ottoman History, Bilkent University, Ankara, Turkey; Professor of Turkish History, University of California, Los Angeles,) to the First International Symposium on Armenian Claims and The Reality of Azerbaijan, sponsored by the Atatürk Research Center, 5 May 2005, Ankara, TurkeyRecommend

  • http://www.ethocide.com Kirlikovali

    Here are the Muslims killed by Armenian revolutionaries through the eyewitness accounts:

    “…When we arrived at Zeve, the village couldn’t be passed through because of its stench. It was as if the bones in our noses would fall off… There were bodies everywhere. We saw a weird scene on the threshold of one house: they had filled the house with Muslims and burned it, and so many people had been burnt that the fat that had oozed from under the threshold had turned back into the trench in front of the door. That is, it was as if the river of fat had risen and later receded. The fat was still fresh. The entire village had been destroyed and was in this situation. I saw this with my own eyes, and I’ll never forget it. We heard that they did the same thing to the Muslims on Carpanak Island. The Armenians told me about the latter; I did not see it for myself…”

    Source: Haci Osman Gemicioglu, an Armenian-Turk (having converted to Islam) who eyewitnessed the 1915 Zeve massacre; as told to Huseyin Celik, during interviews conducted in the late 1970s.

    Close to 40,000 Muslims were killed by Armenians and the city was turned over to invading Russian armies. This act of terrorism, revolt, and treason, all rolled into one, was the last straw. The Ottoman Empire issued the TERESET (Temporary resettlement order of 27 May 1915) order after this.

    If you think this is unfair or too harsh, consider this: The U.S. started and wages for 10 years a global war on terrorism because 3,000 people, mostly Americans, were killed on Amrican soil on 9 September 2001. Why then is it so difficult to undertand that the Ottomans resorted to much lesser wartime measure of TERESET after 40,000 of Ottoman citizens were killed by Armenian insurgents? If you do the math, you will note that 40,000 Ottoman victims in 1915 correspondes to some 800,000 American victims today. Imagine what the U.S. would do if if 800,000 Americans were killed… (And that’s just 1915. Armenians killed 120,000 Muslim in 1914 – source: WWI Dictionary, Pope, page 34.)Recommend

  • MIKE ADAJIAN

    …& so we approach understanding.

    http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/01/21/gunaysu-kurds-challenge-turkish-nation-state/

    thank you, mr. ahmed aziz & friends, for your work on this matter.
    Recommend

  • FlowerPower

    You people need to stop looking at information on the internet and go to the archives, they have the answers! How many times do I have to tell you?

    The archives hold the answers, not just the Turkish archives but the Armenians, Russian, American, British, French, Syrian, German, Greek, and many other archives as well.

    You need to see if both rumors or facts are located in archives around the world!

    If you just get the information from the internet it could be wrong either way!

    Listen to me I know what I’m talking about! Recommend

  • http://www.ethcoide.com Kirlikovali

    Check this photo out at http://www.ethocide.com.

    Do these look like “poor, starving Armenians” to you?

    You’ve been duped !

    Armenian con-artists are active here too. Assdig Maagar is no other than JDA, the notorious Armenian terrorist and crook. Please google the words “JDA terrorist” and you will know what I mean. Recommend

  • Haik

    Turkey must recognize Armenian Genocide as soon as possible because it is the only chance to show the world that turks belong to human beings.Recommend

  • http://www.turkla.com Kirlikovali

    It was wartime tragedy where all sides suffered, not genocide. To reduce a complex history to a racist and dishonest narrative of genocide is untrue, unethical, and inhuman. “Just memory’ is all Turks want. Just memory respects the suffering of all sides, not just that of the Armenians. Recommend

  • Assdig Maagar

    All sides suffered? How come there are no Armenians left in Anatolia, their ansestral land? How come thousnads of their churches and cemetaries are all destoyed? How come even the Armenians who lived in western Turkey are not there now? How come if you mention the Armenian Genocide in Turkey you end up in jail or get shot in the back like Hrant Dink? The Turkish suffering during WWI was because they sided with Germany and they were defeated, what does that have to do with the suffering of the Armenians who were systematically subjected by Ottoman state Genocide. Even the grand son of Gemal Pasha, one of the 3 leaders of the Young Turks who masterminded the Genoside and who were found guilty and sentenced to death by Turkish courts, is on tour now asserting that the 1915 events were genocide. Recommend