Will Chabahar Port reap greater benefits than Gwadar Port?

Published: June 1, 2016
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File photo shows an aerial view of Chabahar port in southeastern Iranian province of Sistan and Balochistan. PHOTO: IRNA

A whiff of competition is in the air.

It is swirling through every nook and cranny and drawing battle lines in its wake. The buzzword on the tip of everyone’s tongue is Chabahar Port, the distant and impoverished cousin of Gwadar Port. The frightening mix of antagonism and optimism has paved the way for increased polarisation. At this stage, our vision of both projects and their intentions have been blinkered.

Sceptics believe the long-awaited trilateral agreement among Iran, Afghanistan and India to develop Chabahar Port poses a threat to efforts to boost the untapped potential of Gwadar Port. On the other extreme, a series of attempts are being made to rope Pakistan into the agreement.

As expected, the response to the matter has been exceedingly diplomatic instead of confrontational. A large number of Pakistani officials have also gone on record to discredit rumours that Chabahar will undermine the scope and influence of Gwadar Port.

As separate narratives emerge over which project will reap greater benefits and what the weakest link is, the initial goal of these initiative is in danger of being undermined. The tug-of-war and a gruelling battle of nerves between the various stakeholders has made us forget that these projects serve as attempts to fuel change, not shift the axis of the world order.

Chabahar and Gwadar will unlock the doors and windows for positive change. If the assurances of Iranian Ambassador Mehdi Honardoost’s are anything to go by, the pact signed between Iran, Afghanistan and India will not seek to rival Gwadar Port or undermine the fundamental aims of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). On the contrary, it will seek to capitalise on their comparative advantage and reap benefits from each other.

The ambassador has revived debates surrounding the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline to persuade Pakistan to enter the agreement. The project has remained a sticking point for a long time as Pakistan has frequently succumbed to pressure and failed to begin work on the initiative. If Pakistan adopts a favourable approach to the Chabahar agreement, it will set into motion plans that have remained in the pipeline for a long time.

In a similar vein, it will help the country address the growing insecurities faced by former defence secretaries that the trilateral pact will isolate Pakistan in the region and pose a security threat.

At this critical juncture, it wouldn’t be fair to discredit the initiative because it is believed to have cropped up as a means of undermining CPEC. It is immaterial that one project is a veiled attempt to thwart the other. If both initiative are allowed to operate parallel to one another, they will eventually forge the path to progress and become the game-changers that they are expected to be. 

Why should it matter if one project is a veiled attempt to thwart the other? If both initiative are allowed to operate parallel to one another, they will eventually forge the path to progress and become the game-changers that they are expected to be.

If we focus on the neutral spaces of justice instead of trying to understand the matter in terms of shifting world orders, the fundamental purpose of such initiatives will become clearer. In a region plagued by uncertainty, development can help undo the toxic past and ensure that it does not repeat itself.

Why should we lose out on this opportunity because of a string of conspiracy theories?

Although it seems naive to completely erase the impact of history in such matters, we can isolate this factor and needlessly draw insights from it. After all, what good would it do to cling to the past if it keeps holding us back?

Which of the two Pakistani ports do you think will reap greater benefits?

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taha.kerar

Taha Kehar

A blogger on social events and has previously worked as Assistant Editor for a media magazine. He is currently pursuing Law Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies. He tweets @TahaKehar.

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • curious2

    Chabahar will provide immediate benefit because there is a legitimate demand for India products to reach Afghanistan …. Pakistan could have undermined the project by simply allowing India products transit through Pakistan but pride/prejudice prevented that. Gwadar on the other hand has sat around for at least two decades with no obvious demand – it still remains a mystery touted by Pakistani politicians as a great World Class deep water port but people who know much about ports, distribution or China’s trade know that’s pretty much nonsense.Recommend

  • Guy

    A very fair article but I wonder how come the author’s countrymen are not able to understand that India needed a land route to do business that Pakistan had it own objections … which is fair enough and the former had to look otherwise. I don’t know why it nerve wrecking where Chabahar & Gwadar has their own benefits. India is looking to connect to Central Asia & beyond so what’s the offence here ….Recommend

  • quatro

    Chabahar port was promoted by India to bi-pass Pakistan – not compete with Gwadar. India is anxious to develop the port – will be it’s primary customer – and has the backing of Iran, Afghanistan and the USA (no sanction issues). It will be economically viable on it’s first day of operation with customers and govt’s in India/Afghanistan pushing the project.

    Meanwhile Gwadar remains a mystery. Karachi has excess capacity so there is no demand by the Pakistan business community for Gwadar. Gwadar has sat mostly finished for over a decade and nobody (including China) ever expressed an interest in the port … Pakistan had to beg China to take over the port and they still haven’t made a concerted effort to open the port for business. Gwadar lacks power, water, storage, roads, railways, etc. normally associated with major port/distribution hub .. seems like the biggest promoters are politicians.

    Who reaps the biggest reward? Iran hands down. They get to move oil/gas to India – get the profit of moving India/Afghanistan trade via Iran. They also get hard currency and improved International reputation.Recommend

  • Rohan

    Another article written by an isi recruit full of jealousy and hate(Pakistanis are champions of hate) Pakistan can’t give security to 1 Chinese engineer and want China to invest 46 billion which is laughable Recommend

  • Bairooni Haath

    The competition between India and Pakistan is ideological. It is Secular vs Islamist, Democratic state vs Security State, Indigenous culture vs Arab culture. Only one ideology will survive. Both India and Pakistan understand this contest and the stakes cannot be higher. Western Pakistan with FATA, KP and Baluchistan represent the soft underbelly of Pakistan. India has made partnership with Iran and Afghanistan while Pakistan is in partnership with Taliban. If the Afghan government survives and they are able to neutralize Taliban, you can be sure Pakistan will be the next target. Without the Taliban, Pakistan will be dismembered with some parts independent while others join India, Iran and Afghanistan. Do not dismiss the Cassandras, for they have seen the future.Recommend

  • malang jan

    “In a similar vein, it will help the country address the growing insecurities faced by former defence secretaries that the trilateral pact will isolate Pakistan in the region and pose a security threat.”

    In fact one of the defence secretary(General Awan) speaking to TV anchor Dr. Danish was insulting Afghans without any regard for another Ex Defence Secretary Gen Lodhi(Afghan roots but born in India) setting on his right side or the present Defence Seretary Mr. Kahttak or million of Pahsutn Afghans living in Pakistan including myself. This is what Gen awan was saying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOvPRwadYoA at 7.27

    Gen Awan was belittling Afghans. They are dependent on Pakistan for their survival. Pakistan control the logistics & provide Daal, Chawal, Ghee to Afghanistan. Therefore, Pakistan has the right to impose Taliban on Afghanistan & packing up India. Dreaming, how can the world leave Afghanistan at the mercy of Pakistani generlas. They have been there & they got 9/11 & you know what followed.

    But the General information are out dated. Afghans have all the resources to grow their own food & export it but for the war it is not possible. They have stop buying Pakistani flour, they imported 2 million tonn wheat from Qazakistan & Turkenistan of top qaulity & low price. They have started sending dry fruits & fresh organic vegtables to India through Chabahar & will import whatever they need from huge Indian market. Is this scareing Paki generlas & why? Because Afghanistan is coming out of war & setting itself free economically by developing regional communication & tradeRecommend

  • Patwari

    Here come the hindu trolls. Six deep and gnashing their teeth.Recommend

  • Desy

    The author’s knowledge is all over the place but is trying to make the case for reaping the fruits of Chabahar Agreement, which is laughable. Iran Pakistan gas pipeline issue of contention is the pricing that they are asking from Pakistan to pay, pre-sanctions. Turkey has to pay $200-250 per., which is too much. Iran has always asked for more in all of its business deals, this pipeline is pretty expensive. Please research Qatar Pakistan agreement and check the price they gave to Pakistan. Post-sanctions its common sense that Iran will increase the price.

    Don’t understand our English media journos taking the bait from indian propagandists whic h they are basing on development 2 container terminals and an investment of $150 million which is nothing in comparison to China’s commitment or how much they have spent in Gwadar since 2004. India is in Chabahar to become a player in Afghan game and to disturb Pak-China. But everyone even indians know that chahbahar beneficiaries will be Chinese in the end. Indian imports to Afghanistan or even iran, CAR combined can’t compete with Chinese economy. How easily all the western media made us believe that limited indian imports will tip the balance n india’s favor in AFghanistan and Central Asia which infrastructure is backward and a close economy. The only thing one can do is laugh as China/Pakistan have already prepared about india for much longer time than they can even imagine.Recommend

  • Jayman

    Why is this looked at as a zero-sum game? There is enough business for both to do well. The only thing going for Chabahar is that more nations are interested in using it. Japan has expressed a willingness to join the project. US has indicated that it might use it to restock supplies in Afghanistan if Pakistan shuts down the supply route. Pakistan despite claiming its geographic superiority, is coy about letting anybody use the port. It is only natural that an alternative will emerge.Recommend

  • Ravian

    China is the “production house” of the world. China is planning to bring its products through Gawadar port to Middle East, Africa and Europe cutting the distance, cost and time of the sea route. Presumably, India want to access the central Asia through Chahbahar. So these are two different players and different markets and no comparison should be made between the two. Pakistan will get “rent” from China for its strategic position.Pakistan could have done the same to India but unfortunately, the vested interests within Pakistan do not want good relations with India.Recommend

  • Jayman

    The result of Pakistan’s reluctance to share its “strategic” location is that, it has now been completely bypassed. The US can use Chabahar to resupply Afghanistan in case Pakistan throws another tantrum and shuts down the supply route. In one swift move, Gwadar’s importance has been nullified to a great extent. Trouble is, Pakistan is short of thinkers and gifted strategists.Recommend

  • marik

    China has built a special industrial zone in Chabahar too. They are not stupid (like govt of Pakistan). They will reap the benefits from both sides

    http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2016/04/27/462797/China-CMI-Iran-mega-port/Recommend

  • Cosmian

    For those taking “Chabahar Comic” as alternative of Gawadar, you should remember ” Your friend is our monkey”..Pakistan has much better relations with Central Asian States than any other caliming party for this mass transit route..Pak has been placing many bilateral projects like Tajikistan Gas pipeline, 1000 MW electricity and Motorway recently innagurated by Nawaz Sharif…Most interesting the comparision b/w expenses on Gawadar which is around 10 billion (other than 45 bilion $) with Chabahar (500 million)…It is hilarious to compare 0.5 billion expenditure v/s 45 billion $… Hail CPEC…Recommend

  • Kickass

    A very silly comparison by an educated person.Recommend

  • Kickass
  • Shanker

    This is the problem. Such kind of idiots are only in Pakistan and hence dragging behind the country to the 2nd Century…..Recommend

  • Hassan Nasir

    Then go back to your Afghanistan…..We Pakistanis don’t need you. Afghan is Afghan, doesn’t matter Pashtun or any other. Take your and your all fellow refugees back to Afghanistan or India.

    Pakistan is our country and we can throw you out anyday. We are about to kick Afghans from our country. Process has been started. Borders have been established. Torkham border has been tightened. No more illegal crossing. No more Afghan and Indian terrorism on our soil, who were taking advantage of that porus border.

    I m Pakistani Pashtun and I hate Afghans to the core. You are now jealous that how Pakistani Pashtuns are progressing ahead while your countrymen are sucking balls of US and invaders. Instead of complaining,you and your people should be thankful to us that we gave shelter to you. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

    Shameless Afghans.Recommend

  • sk

    Only fools can discredit importance of Chabahar port for Indian strategic interest. With this port India is bypassing Pakistan to enter Europe, Central Asia & Afghanistan. Tripartite agreement & direct access between three countries having closed relations could severely damage & tremendous pressure on Army of Pakistan without any direct conflict. It would allow even US to bargain & overrule Pakistan at any time as it could provide required support to base stations from this route. China would exploit Pakistan as colonial state with alternate route for business via India Chabahar. Afghanistan would be a sturborn state with no dependency on Pakistan for its basic supply. TAPI would be a bombshell for Pakistan with India withdrawing for its routing through Pakistan & rerouting the supply from Afghanistan via Chabahar.Recommend

  • Kulbhushan Yadav

    Yup because Hindu literacy rate is higher than Muslim literacy rate. Moreover Hindus are more intelligent than Muslims and have better understanding of world around.Recommend

  • Nana

    Kettle calling the pot black!!!Recommend

  • stevenson

    I think Chabahar is a win- win for Pakistan because now Pakistan can legitimately regulate the border with Afghanistan without worrying about cries that it is blocking a land locked state. Via Afghanistan, Pakistan gets refugees, drugs and smuggling which only destabilize Pakistan, especially since Afghanistan is basically an Indian client state and has been since 1947. There is now no need to open trade to India via Pakistan which would always have the danger of allowing further Indian agents and Afghan terrorists getting in to Pakistan. Chabahar cannot compete with Gwadar due to many geographical reasons and most independent observers know this which is why no one in Pakistan is threatended. Let’s so hope for the best for both Chabahar and Gwadar. Iran and Afghanistan have their own needs and now India and Afghanistan can trade people and goods directly without them coming to Pakistan which is great news for Pakistanis.Recommend

  • K. HUSSAN ZIA

    There is much misunderstanding about the issue. Chahbahar may serve
    some purpose for Iran but it cannot be an alternative post for the
    Chinese and Central Asian trade. Linking it with Gwadar only adds to the
    costs and offers no significant advantage to any of the parties
    involved.

    Secondly,
    bulk of the Chinese and Central Asian trade can and in all likelihood
    will be handled via Karachi and Port Qasim where all the needed
    facilities are already in place and completely paid for. It is the same
    with most of the rail and road network that is already linked with
    Afghanistan and needs very little new expenditure.

    As
    against this the considerable cost of developing Chahbahar Port as well
    as rail and road network passing through mostly arid and inhospitable
    terrain on the way to Afghanistan will have to be factored into the
    transportation costs by the end users. It is economics that must
    determine the viability of a commercial undertaking. Given this
    Chahbahar is a non-starter.

    It
    will become a millstone around the necks of both the Indians and the
    Iranians if they decided to go through with it for it will not attract
    much Central Asian and Chinese trade, if any. The Indians may in the end
    settle for just the two berths to facilitate their fuel imports. Even
    that is not strictly necessary

    Chances
    are, unlike the Chinese, they will not invest their own money but
    simply act as contractors to build whatever the Iranians are willing to
    pay for and let them suffer the consequences. But then the Chinese can
    do the same cheaper. One can only hope that the Iranians will see the
    situation in this light and get a proper independent economic feasibility done before committing themselves.Recommend

  • Soledad

    “It is hilarious to compare 0.5 billion expenditure v/s 45 billion $… Hail CPEC…”

    Such pridefulness because China is spending lots of its own money to build a port to service China’s needs. Not Pakistan’s needs but China’s needs.

    Where does Pakistan figure in all this? It provides security to Chinese trucks travelling up and down the link roads to Gwadar!

    Ever seen those ferociously mustachioed security guards who sit outside jewelers’ shops, shotgun across their knees? That’s what Pakistan’s role in Gwadar has become.

    India, Iran, and Afghanistan are building a port to service their own particular needs. Whether that costs half a billion or a hundred billion is besides the point.

    Still feel proud, Cosiman?Recommend

  • Rohan

    You don’t even know the meaning of that phrase and you are using itRecommend

  • Rohan

    Cpec is a failure from the start you can’t provide security to 1 Chinese engineer ffs plus India has better relations with centra Asia because we don’t house Uzbek militants or central Asian rebels and call them good terroristsRecommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    India is not an export oriented Economy so exporting to Afghanistan and CAR is not really top of the agenda here. But, it certainly helps.

    India has no problem with Chinese influence in Afghanistan. India is
    trying to increase its. Afghanistan will not have to depend on Pakistan
    to get to the sea. This will change things in India’s favor.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    You do realize $46 is a loan right? India is known to build quality stuff for cheap. Remember our Mars rover built for a measly $75 million?

    Its much easier to get back $500 million investment than an amount 92 times larger on similar infrastructure.

    You guys have to pay back every single penny of that $46 billion with interest. CPEC is the biggest bet your gambling addicted elite have come up with.

    How on Earth will you get so much money? China will bring its companies, its workers and all this $46 Billion will flow back to China! It wont even pay transit for using the facilities it built. How will you generate revenue?

    Please do enlighten.

    Chinese are taking you for a ride and the funny part is you guys are helping them!Recommend

  • Enkay

    Taha Kehar : “On the other extreme, a series of attempts are being made to rope Pakistan into the agreement.” On hearing the Cries of Horror from the Pakistani Establishment the Iranians were kind enough to “Invite” the Pakistanis to use Chabahar!Recommend

  • Desy

    @ravian What a foolish response, what Pakistan gets thru the Afghan transit route there is no duty its actually peanuts compared to CPEC, and what has States done in Pakistan apart from drone attacks and applying pressure thru their media making u look like a terorist, their USAID engagements go in millions in small countries around u and their private investments go in billions for ur enemy nation india. It is well known what cost Pakistan has given compared to what United States ever did apart from pledges and deporting thousands after 9/11 and not taking 5000+ ppl from the country compared to India where it takes 70000-10000 thru h1-b and business visas + more from other visas annually. USA drifting away from Pakistan is a blessing in disguise, one can see what benefits Pak has reaped being in partnership with them in terms of blood and money since 2002.Recommend

  • Jayman

    There you go. Problem solved.
    Small correction: India is investing $20 billion in total. The $500 million is for the construction of the port alone.
    Since Chabahar is no match to Gwadar, Pakistan should shed its paranoia and get stuck into the business of nation building.Recommend

  • Muneeb rasheed Siddiqui

    How will Iran move gas to India?
    They do not have a direct land link.Recommend

  • indiandude

    @disqus_Qx4h4L4stF:disqus
    ..Don’t understand our English media journos taking the bait from indian …….and an investment of $150 million which is nothing in comparison to China’s commitment…

    There is a difference between actual investment and ‘commitment’ which is worth zilch..

    $150 mil of actual investment is worth much more than $45 billion of commitment/MOUs, specially in rapidly declining chinese yuan loans that has to be paid back @ 18% interest in $$.
    However, it is another matter if pakistan can even pay interest on 18% of interest due without asking for handouts from who else but uncle sam.Recommend

  • Parvez

    ET …… Correct the question at the end……Chabahar is an Iranian port and not a Pakistani port.Recommend

  • Lonely

    You mean to say that US instead of relying on Pakistan will now rely upon Iran for its strategic position in this region. I wonder what Israel has to say to this?Recommend

  • deepu

    Dude, by the way you are surviving on the very AID that thrown at you in the name of Afghans! Pakistan has already started to feel the heat even though Americans are not fully withdrawn from Afghans!Recommend

  • deepu

    The day is not far when Pakistanis began to cry on ‘backstabbing’ by China when they start business from Chabahar by-passing Pakistan for plenty of reasons. Best of luck folks.Recommend

  • Sridhar Kaushik

    This kind of discussion is redundant.
    A trade can succeed if it clears all barriers.
    Pakistan erected barrier for India by denying it land route to access Afghaistan and beyond. Chabahar therefore became a necessity.
    Is this going to compete with Gwadar?
    It does not have to. Both can complement each other but looking at Pakistani mindset, they are going to end up pulling Gwadar down by trying to compete with chabahar. If they keep Gwadar port open for trade from chabahar, this need not happen.Recommend

  • Hassan Nasir

    Don’t know whether Pakistan is feeling heat but Indians are definitely feeling the heat of Gwadar aka CPEC. Thats why they come on any CPEC related article.Recommend

  • Sridhar Kaushik

    Pakistanis probably do not know this.
    Out of 47 billion dollars of investment in CPEC, about 11 billion is by loan from China. These are soft loans but still loans with an interest rate.
    Pakistan has to provide road infrastructure to and from Gwadar. That is likely to involve mostly Chinese engineers who probably will also tell Pakistanis how to build the infrastructure. That means the money given to CPEC goes back to China in form of investment in its own people.
    China then gets to export stuff from its mainland through Gwadar but Pakistan has to provide security for the trade route. This is going to be tricky considering there is an insurrection in Balochistan and Pakistan is a haven for terrorists.
    What does Pakistan gain?
    May be by spin offs from the investment in port and roads. I do not see Pakistan directly benefiting.Recommend

  • Sridhar Kaushik

    Dude,
    Your Pak govt is yet to build the road infrastructure to and from Gwadar. At least that is the impression i get from your Urdu talk shows.
    You can take a horse to well but can’t force it to drink. Chinese will learn this soon!Recommend

  • Sridhar Kaushik

    Who says India isnot a export oriented economy?
    What is IT and ITES.
    Export also means export in services not just goods.Recommend

  • Sridhar Kaushik

    We live in an era of bilateral, trilateral, multilateral trade agreements.
    By closing itself to trade with India, Pakistan is shooting itself on the foot.
    Nations will find ways to trade bypassing barriers.Recommend

  • malang jan

    Pashtun Afghans are living on their motherland for thousand of years. They are not refugees at all. No one have the power to impose Durand Line on us. It is not in the power of Pakistan or Afghanistan to divide pashtun with an artificial line.Recommend

  • Desy

    @indiandude why u gloat during terrorists attacks in PAkistan and celebrate PAkistanis being dead? Why u care if Pakistan will pay or not? Apne country ke indian muslims ke saath kya karte ho we know this in ghettoes of Juhapura, Ahmedabad and the recent Gulbarg society and best baqkery case how BJP’s Amit SHah walked out scot free. If have so mcuh concern why r u isolating muslims of ur country into slums and ghettoes calling them traitor and naming their places as little Pakistan? Khud to kuch kar nahi sakte aur lecture Pakistan ko derahe hainRecommend

  • Jayman

    Iran will gladly take the money to let US supplies through. Wait and watch. There is no love lost between Iran and Pakistan. Iran-US fences are being mended as we speak. The nuclear deal is just the first step.Recommend

  • Desy

    @indiandude how much of debt u owe to uncle sam first check that before talking about others.Recommend

  • Desy

    @sridharkaushik:disqus This is one example of someone who will say anything to prove their points and find out excuses. Your statements are ridiculous. Pakistan commerce ministry in 2009/10 with a visiting Hillary clinton signed an agrement to use Wagah to ship indian imports into Afghanistan and Afghanisan can export also from which india backed out as india was doing the agreement on the backs of the Americans, plus the amount of anti-sstate activities indians have been involved in, indians themselves never lobbied or pushed for that, which this Kaushik is twisting. Gwadar was first offered to india, Shyam Saran back in 2004 in Musharraf era confirmed that, there are still joint communiques as well as Press conf. when Pakistan was developing Gwadar itself w/ some help from china, there was no decision on chinese companies at that time plus their was’nt any terrorism by indians using Afghanistan and now Iran. India has been tryinng to isolate Pakistan since 2008 using different excuses for not letting Pakistanis earn like the ban on current players in ipl, ban on pak film bin roye and violence against Pak artists like Shakil siddiqui by MNS, first check ur extremist elements before giving excuses and disinformation.Recommend

  • Desy

    @Anooop:disqus Best of luck to divert all the trade and becoming the transit route of Afghans. Also, U don’t even know the depth Pakistan has in Afghanistan. Afghan’s reliance on Pakistan is noto nly on importing stuff only but 3-4 million Afghans based in Pakistan, huge cross-border ties and issues u can’t even imagine. It does’nt evene concern us.m Would love to see how Chabahar trade-link is secured n southern Afghanistan or the Chinese use Chabahar to spread their products around using complementary Gwwadar as centr pointRecommend

  • Desy

    @Sridhar Kaushik Chacha how would you know this infrastructure while sitting in india? Get the facts straight. Chinese don’t base their decisions on HATE. U really wish PAkistan does’nt progress and failsw. sometimes reading ur comments i really feel Pakistan should play games so the indian uses taxpayer money to build military industrial complex instead of economy that something the indians will do as the most useful thing to use is their HATE. The easiest thing for us to do is make u act in fear and hate as u r already in this mindset for last many years.Recommend

  • Desy

    A country which imports suee dhaaga and luring foreigners on basis of imports is not an export oriented economyRecommend

  • cidra

    you are free to do all the math you want to do and exhaust your resources. Only time will tell…Recommend

  • Laskero

    Same way Pakistan buys gas from Qatar.Recommend

  • Nana

    Talking fast trying to look smart? Typical Indian! Only that you end up looking dumb!!! Go and get some life.Recommend

  • Rohan

    Dude you should get a life because you are coming here and abusing me.Recommend

  • OSD

    That is a laughably naive analysis of the current situation and we in Pakistan really enjoy it when people from across the border make fools of themselves, which is a regular occurrence really. The Chabahar port is located in Iran and while the sanctions have been partially removed, India is conveniently ignoring the antagonism Iran has with the USA and the very real threat of sanctions snapping back when it suits the Americans. Then we move to Afghanistan, which is already supplied by Pakistan and while some traffic might be diverted to Chahbahar, 70 years of connections cannot be diminished instantly even if the Afghans go for an all out war. Thirdly, the Indians plan to connect with Central Asia but how they will navigate safely through war torn Afghanistan is really beyond me.

    Now if we talk about Gwadar, Pakistan urgently needs a second port as the Karachi port is operating at capacity. Gwadar will provide a strategic alternate to Karachi and is a natural deep water port. The primary customer for the port is China and we all know about the volumes that need to be moved, justifying the value of this port. The infrastructure to connect Gwadar is being built at the highest priority and will be completed sooner than the Chahbahar port. The best bit is that only a small section needs to be built to connect Gwadar to Afghanistan in the south at Kandahar and the north at Kabul, effectively undercutting Chahbahar completely. It is rather Indians who should be worried about their adventure being torpedoed before it is launched. The articles you post should be directed to your own government to bring them to reality and stop day dreaming about being a super power when India is the most prolific beggar for American alms.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Undersea pipeline or LNG by tankers. They are setting up LNG plant.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Who says Pakistan has better relations Central Asian States? What do you contribute to them? What is your trade volume with these countries? Do you know your arch rival has an airbase in Tajikistan? Indians have around $5 billion of trade with these countries. You dont have money. You are even defaulting on debt servicing.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Correct. India and Japan are the largest investors in Central Asian States and that is why they got together in setting up chabahar as it will be easier in trading. Since India is investing $20 billion in chabahar, they need a port to transport their stuff. To solve this problem they are investing $500 million in the development of the port. These stupid Pakistanis always have conspiracy theories, they dont understand the subject.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    45 billion $ is begged money whereas 0.5 billion is own money. With begged money, u cant continue with talk talking.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Well the figures that you are giving are old ones. Till date there is no feasibility report on CPEC, in the absence of that how can you say that the venture will profitable? Tell me what is the volume of business you expect to generate in the 1st five years.
    The other question is you never bothered to build the supporting infrastructure, roads railways etc. Unless you have that, you can never operate it. Whereas in Chabahar the initial business volume will be $600 million which which will go upto $ 3billion. Your rival is smart in order to support the port, they are spending $1.6 billion in the railway line, the road network has already been built during the sanctions.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Your own government officials are saying that.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Auto parts, medicines, steels and many more things. Exports are close to $500 billions whereas Pakistan has $30 billions that to cheap stuff like cotton, riceRecommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Your country is on the brink of collapse.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    2 of 100 people have university education in Islamic countries. Thats why they are poor and illiterate.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Chahbahar is a part of much bigger project North South Transport Corridor.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    You guys have an inherent tendency to compete with Indians on all aspects. They are just building the port for business no rivalry. If you are investing $20 billion in industries in the region, naturally you need a port for moving your stuff. Its not small money. You are not putting up industries in gwadar, you dont have plan and money both.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    I think Indians should avoid trade with these Pakistanis, Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    They dont owe much debt to uncle sam rather they hold more than $100 billions of US government securities, even higher than your master Saudi.Recommend

  • Enkay

    @Desy : 1. The IPL is a completely Indian Oriented Cricket League. No Non-Indian has a RIGHT TO DEMAND participation in the IPL. As long as Pakistan keeps perpetrating Terrorism in India the Pakistani Cricketers will not get a chance to Participate in the IPL just for the sake of earning Money. 2. Pakistan Actors, Singers etc. have no RIGHT TO DEMAND TO perform in India so as to earn Money. You will note that no Indian Artists – singers or actors – nor Cricketers are demanding to participate in Pakistani Activities for the sake of earning Money! If you hate India so much then PLEASE STAY IN PAKISTAN.
    However you are more than welcome to visit Muslim Shrines, your relatives, and for Tourism in India.Recommend

  • OSD

    Haha..You do realise national loans are a common method of financing development and economic growth, provided they are not pilfered of course. The second point to note is that investments are of two types, which are equity and bonds. As the CPEC loans are not held on the books of the Pakistan government and are strictly against assets, they count as investment, do not affect our national debt and so our credit ranking remains secure. Thus this rabble rousing about the nature of financing is a third class show of the person’s own naivety.

    Moving on, i find it hilarious that you point to India’s projects as a model for any country. The Arjun tank and the Tejas have been rejected after decades and billions of dollars worth of wasted development. The Nirbhay missile can’t hit a target the size of a city and that is the one missile that India tried to build itself (the BRAHMOS is a direct copy of an old Russian missile). Regarding costs, the Chahbahar project is a fraction of the size of the CPEC, which aims to completely upgrade the infrastructure of Pakistan, versus the pitifully tiny Chahbahar project of a few berths and a rail line.

    The economic effects of infrastructure development go way beyond just the construction of the roads and that you can learn by studying the growth stories of countries like the USA, UK or Germany, or very soon you can learn by studying the story of Pakistan. The loans are being provided at marginal rates and will be recouped through transit fees.

    If you don’t understand all of this, I don’t think anyone can put it any simpler than that. The Chinese are building up the CPEC to provide an alternate strategic route for supplies. They are also supporting Pakistan to keep India occupied and keep a strong army on it’s westtern borders. Pakistan needs the CPEC to jump start it economic growth and at the same time conjoin itself with China to ensure its survival against a malevolent India.

    In reality, the USA is taking India for a ride by turning it against China and the funny bit is that, it is making you guys pay for it yourself while it just butters India up with flattery.Recommend

  • Guy

    Let’s first let the ports get developed rather than jumping to the real commercial value. Looking at the Central Asian map if China needs to connect to Central Asian states it doesn’t need CPEC. It shares borders with 3 central Asian states Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. If terrain is a problem then Chinese have mastered the art of developing infrastructure around it. So let’s keep China out of the equation. It will using Gwadar as an alternative to Chinese ports to avoid transportation costs & for its energy supply lines from ME.

    “Secondly,
    bulk of the Chinese and Central Asian trade can and in all likelihood
    will be handled via Karachi and Port Qasim where all the needed
    facilities are already in place and completely paid for” ….. Yes for Chinese but here we are talking about India trading with Central Asia through existing facilities in Pakistan which we needed access to and Pakistan had objections to. The Chabahar came as a second alternative.

    “As
    against this the considerable cost of developing Chahbahar Port as well as rail and road network passing through mostly arid and inhospitable terrain on the way to Afghanistan will have to be factored into the transportation costs by the end users” ….. If you ever have a chance to visit India I can tell you drive some places where it will be unbelievable for you to think the infrastructure though on a small scale can be developed by India. The terrain on the Eastern side liking Arunachal Pradesh with the rest of the country and an air strip in Leh are just little examples what can be done.

    “It
    will become a millstone around the necks of both the Indians and the Iranians if they decided to go through with it for it will not attract
    much Central Asian and Chinese trade, if any “…… Sir what we are talking about here is the Indian trade with other states not Chinese .. they are welcome to stay out or join in if they need. India needed access to central Asian states for which it needed passage through Pakistan and the rest is the history we all know. Again going back to my first line of comment … let both get developed first to see the real value rather than we all becoming analysts & start pouring our opinion.

    “Chances are, unlike the Chinese, they will not invest their own money but simply act as contractors to build” ….. Let the Iranians decide whom they want to choose & at what price, We have seen Chinese investment in Sri Lanka developing their ports & the outcome of that ending SL paying the price they never factored in.

    So let’s wait and watch.Recommend

  • sterry

    It’s got nothing to do with conspiracy theories. There are a lot of natural links between Pakistan, especially the northern part and Central Asia where families are intermarried. That’s why Pakistan has a lot of person to person interaction with Central Asia and it is not threatened by African, Indian or Japanese investment in Central Asia. India can invest all it wants in Chabahar Iran or in Central Asia but it cannot change the ground reality. Just think about how inconvenient it is to load and unload stuff before sending it off for the Indians. Think about costs and inconvenience not to mention Iran is still not out of the woods as a pariah state. Why else do you see so many Iranian refugees desperate to run away from their country all over the world?Recommend

  • Swaadhin

    If you have been observing the Pakistan affairs for last 5 years, one gets the feeling that Pakistan was not born for Muslims of the subcontinent but it is born to entertain the Chinese at Gwadar and to bring down the superpowers in its imagination.Recommend

  • Swaadhin

    “The articles you post should be directed to your own government to bring them to reality and stop day dreaming about being a super power when India is the most prolific beggar for American alms.”

    Some of the fancy terms used for Begging:

    1. Friends of Pakistan.
    2. Kerry Luger Bill.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    North Korea too is completely dependent on China. Look where it is.
    When US sanctions Pakistan, like it did with Iran, Pakistan will go the North Korea way. NATO countries form more than 70% of world’s GDP.
    Are you saying our Mars rover is a flop? Yes, up and coming tech power, we will fail at some and achieve spectacular success at some. But, roads and ports we have built in large number within India and other places. Your blind hatred of India won’t even allow you to recognize what a fantastic achievement Mars mission was for India.
    How is India being taken for a ride? US is not doing us a favor. It needs buyers and we need stuff. They need fresh expanding market and we have that. Its a partnership of mutual benefit.
    India’s GDP grew at 7.9%, almost double that of Pakistan. Except China everyone is pulling out their investment. So, good luck with your CPEC.Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    Pakistan is the most hated country in Afghanistan.

    http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2010/1/52992_space.html
    If Chinese use Chabahar, they are more welcome! It will benefit Afghanistan which can charge transit fee and contribute in making the Afghan Govt consolidate its power.
    Due to the availability of Chabahar, Chinese will bargain like crazy if Pakistan wants to charge transit fee. So, net loss for Pakistan.Recommend

  • Desy

    @Enkay LOL hate we don’t even give a damn but thanx for blabbing this and vindicating this agreement or loans is none of indians’ business or defend this blog’s author also for what. No thank you we will never give u access to katas raj and uderolal so keep ur muslim shrines tourism for urself LOL. Its none of ur business to infiltrate and bullsh*t on Pak forums find indian ones where ur delusional mindset works. and take this chacha kaushik with u who is NRI from MArs LOL.Recommend

  • Desy

    @charlesshwab apna bhakt troll hogya? now scram no one will reply to joke like u all will laugh and move on so don’t waste ur musings here LOL.Recommend

  • Desy

    @charlesshwab:disqus LOL polluting the forums now we will have to bring SIT from the centre to acquit hindu terrorists like modi, bipin patel and amit shah ROFL. Recommend

  • Desy

    @charlesshwab Illiteracy and militant training can also be found in RSS seva dham schools or literature from Panchajanya where they train women how to protect themselves from love jihadi muslims rofl.
    Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Muslims who created Pakistan had a choice to go there in 1947. The ones did not made India home have to own the nativity, give up Urdu, Haj subsidy and Semitic names. They have to be Ghar Wapised otherwise they will become rootless parasites like Pakistanis who wannabe more Bedouin than Bedouin & their elite try to be more Anglo than Anglos. Indian government need to facilitate Ghar Wapasi for the betterment of all Indian people. Xianity and Islam are imperialism of 1 Pope and 1 Khilafa who resides outside India and has no love for Indian culture, spirituality, language and humans.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    there is much more in common between India & China. In the past these two cultures and economies interacted very well. Chinese ambassidor to US in 1988 elaborated in his lecture at Bell Labs in NJ, how India helped China come out of its dark ages twice – even before BoudhiDharma ( an 7 ft tall pot bellied Andhraite with thundering laughter), Hindu worship of deities and spirituality had spread in China. India China never fought except in 1962 because of ConAngrezi Nehru’s hanky panky and allowing Anglos do dirty work against China. India-China will be trading partners. Both people value education and have scientific temper… China will try to have access to Indian ocean through NorthEast and Burma rather than through Pakistan. Central Asian republics are friendly to India but do not count in terms of trade and propsperity… as it is their population is decreasingRecommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Talking Hindi with Arab & Persian foreign words is considered elitist in Bakistan. Pakistanis have become rootless parasite who hate their own mother tongue, native culture, ancestral history… such populace perfect breeding ground for terrorists.Recommend

  • Desy

    LOL beggars who sleep on roads of delhi making pathetic statements don’t want to go down ur levelRecommend

  • LS

    “The Arjun tank and the Tejas have been rejected after decades and billions of dollars worth of wasted development. The Nirbhay missile can’t hit a target the size of a city and that is the one missile that India tried to build itself”

    I don’t know about you (like which alternate universe you live on) Arjun already has a regiment (366-Mk1 inducted and 118 Mk-II on order)

    http://www.forceindia.net/atpresent.aspx

    and so does Tejas with orders on book for 140 of them..
    http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/parrikar-cuts-gordian-knot-to-boost-tejas-line-115100200031_1.html

    http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report-indian-navy-fastens-its-seatbelt-for-light-combat-aircraft-tejas-1400112

    Excluding Nirbhay there are many missiles that have been inducted (Prithvi 1,2,3, Agni, 1,2, 3 , multiple SLBMs K4, K15, Akash (Mach 3), Prahaar (Mach 2)

    Unlike the chinese(M-9, M-11) and North Korean (No Dong and TapoDong) missiles with paint jobs. And we have already seen the effectiveness of those missiles in recent DPRK tests… with ridiculous CEP of 200-800 meters.. on a good day. Same with painted MBT-2000 or JF-17 with ZERO technical pak inputs.

    Try building a motorcycle engine first on your own… before commenting on Jet Engines or anything else. At least we have a working JET engine of both 25kN as well as 52kN (dry) 81kN (wet) capacityRecommend

  • LS

    So intermarried families (a minuscule minority) is your hedge against the massive development and INSTC?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_Transport_CorridorRecommend

  • Hassan Nasir

    I m pure Pashtoon and i will kick any Afghan happily who disrespects my country. Pakistani Pashtoons will throw all Afghans out of Pakistan. It has already started. Torkham border has been tightened. No more Afghans can come into our land.

    Lol. By tightening border, Pakistan has already shown its courage to impose Durand line on Afghans. Afghans will soon accept this as international border.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36438575

    The sooner Afghans come into their senses, the better it will be for them.

    We are very angry right now. You have taken unfair advantage of our hospitality, but not anymore. That artificial line will become border very soon and you, along with other Afghan refugees will be sent back to your country Afghanistan. Go to India

    You better hope ISI is not monitoring you. Otherwise, you know…hahahahhahRecommend

  • Hassan Nasir

    And you are surviving just because you r the biggest recipient of US aid. Poor Indians.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/India-top-recipient-of-US-economic-aid/articleshow/48093123.cmsRecommend

  • Hassan Nasir

    it is you who are competing with us. We started this CPEC, which caused great tension, which forced you to move to persian water to relieve your burnt azz, hence signing of Chabahar agreement.Recommend

  • LS

    You need to see this (Too much ISI propaganda isn’t good for your health)
    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/ind/#Exports

    Does not include IT and ITES which is more than $143 Billion
    http://www.ibef.org/industry/information-technology-india.aspx

    Unlike yours that is 90% Agri and Animal exports:
    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/pak/#Exports

    While your country imports cotton and vegetables from India and lot of illegal trade via dubai into Pakistan which mostly includes meat, Medicines, Tires) worth Billions of dollars.

    http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/ind/pak/show/2014/Recommend

  • LS

    “Your Friend is our Monkey”

    The reality is other way round… We have captive Airforce base in Tajikistan, unlike the monkeys who have nothing. TAPI – The P here is only there because it was the transit route, just like Monkey in the middle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farkhor_Air_Base

    Chabahar is an end port to INSTC which is much bigger than CPEC.. India is spending more on DMIC ($100 Billion) than Pakistan can ever imagine to spend its borrowed money on CPEC.

    Lastly you also need to realize that CPEC is ONE (Just ONE) project that you have. India has 4 International projects and 5 Domestic projects that rival/Exceed CPEC in its scope.
    1) International
    a) BCIM – Bangladesh, China, India and Mayanmar Corridor
    b) MIEC – Mekong India Economic Corridor
    c) BBIN – Bhutan, Bangladesh, India and Nepal Corridor
    d) INSTC – International North South Transport Corridor (Moscow to Mumbai)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_Transport_Corridor

    All above Project are more than 2 country projects, unlike CPEC which is Chinese Captive because pakistan has NOTHING to export.

    Here is your own country’s assessment on CPEC.. which is DISMAL
    http://herald.dawn.com/news/1153413/mother-china-a-chinese-revolution-sweeps-across-pakistan

    2) Domestic:
    a) DMIC – Delhi Mumbai Industrial Corridor – Ranked in KPMG Top 100 Most Innovative Infrastructure Project
    https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2014/11/infrastructure-100-world-markets-report-v3.pdf
    b) BMIC – Bangalore Mumbai Industrial Corridor
    c) ADKIC – Amritsar, Delhi, Kolkatta Industrial Corridor
    d) CBIC – Chennai, Bangalore Industrial Corridor
    e) VCIC – Vizag, Chennai Industrial Corridor

    So don’t even think about competition and expensive does not necessarily mean good and by now you should know with a live example of Lahore Metro Bus that is most expensive project in the world and not necessarily worlds best.Recommend

  • LS

    Training with sticks is not called Militant training.. Training with Guns, PRG, Explosives, IED, in camps of AQ, JeM, LeJ, LeT and 1000 others is MILITANT training. Even though its not much effectiveRecommend

  • LS

    Lets break down the “Naivete” here…

    “India is conveniently ignoring the antagonism Iran has with the USA”
    http://www.firstpost.com/world/us-backs-india-iran-chabahar-port-deal-as-it-outflanks-china-pakistan-gwadar-project-2799596.html

    “Afghanistan, which is already supplied by Pakistan”
    There have been consistent calls by Indians and Afghans to provide India with a route to Afghanistan which were refused by Pakistan…

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1179172

    “The primary customer for the port is China and we all know about the volumes that need to be moved, justifying the value of this port”

    This is what China has already done to your country…
    http://herald.dawn.com/news/1153413/mother-china-a-chinese-revolution-sweeps-across-pakistan

    Most of the traffic today goes via Karachi and NOT Gwadar…

    http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:62/centery:25/zoom:7

    Swtich on the Density map and see.. ALMOST NOTHING on GWADAR…

    Chabahar has some traffic already as seen above in the map and stands @ $600 Million today…. Confirmed by your analysts here:
    https://youtu.be/_qqYwA0K-vc?t=2m8s

    So a Non functional port with nothing connecting it is a pipe dream so far. while Paksitan remains the largest receiver of funds and military Aid from USA in last 10 years

    – Since, 2000 Between India and Pakistan: Pakistan has received more Military and Economic Aid from USA than India. Almost $35 Billion, though Military Aid is much more than what is documented.

    Military Aid: http://www.state.gov/t/pm/ppa/sat/c14560.htm
    Economic Aid: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ALLD.CD?order=wbapi_data_value_2014+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

    Rhetoric has no value.. Data has…Recommend

  • Nana

    Is is that your way of satisfying your ego and feeling superior? A poor job definitely.Recommend

  • Nana

    You started the abuse by calling us champions of hate. Indians beat us by miles in this area. The comments of all Indians are testament to it. Their favourite hobby is to club beat Pakistanis (verbally). Looks like it gives them a kind of psychological relief. Signs of narcissist personality. Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Biggest criminals are pakistan army generals who created taliban. They need to be extradited to ICJ Hague.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    That wont last long. You dont have financial muscle.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Even then they are considered best IT specialists. Where do you figure? They have given the world something like yoga, Ayurveda. The concept of Islam is hate. Hate other religions, call them infidels.Recommend

  • charlesshwab .

    Excuse me everything is economics nothing personal. No one wants to deal with Pakistan or Pakistanis. Well convenience at the cost of security is not better option. So the best way is to avoid Pakistan. This is the policy of US also. Well of course Iran is not an open country. But you know to do business, you dont look at those issuesRecommend

  • Gp65

    National loans at 18% in dollar terms with sovereign guarantee are NOT a common way to fund infrastructure. This is a hard money loan and is positioned as an investment by China. Amazing.Recommend