The problem with Vande Mataram and Hindu nationalism

Published: March 25, 2016

The Majlis-e-Ittehad-ul Muslimeen MLA Waris Pathan’s suspension, through a unanimous nod, by the Maharashtra Assembly is an indication that there is a thin line between Hindutva nationalism and Indian nationalis. PHOTO: TWITTER ‏@syedsulaiman92

There is a constant debate of whether Hindutva nationalism has mainstreamed in India or does it remain confined to the right-wing constituencies. Whatever may be the case, the Majlis-e-Ittehad-ul Muslimeen MLA Waris Pathan’s suspension, through a unanimous nod, by the Maharashtra Assembly is an indication that there is a thin line between Hindutva nationalism and Indian nationalism. For now, Pathan remains suspended for the entire budget session until April 17, 2016; for exercising his right to not to speak certain things that he didn’t want to say, as guaranteed by the Indian constitution.

In the double irony – which seems to have become a hallmark now – it was the Congress party, with its 42 members, that aggressively demanded the ‘disciplinary’ action against the Muslim legislator, but it was the same Congress party that strongly criticised BJP’s reactionary behaviour during the JNU episode, stating that people cannot be forced to accept an exclusivist notion of nationalism!

Given the enduring nature and long history of its peculiar politics, the Congress party can, arguably, be categorised as an organisation with a certain Hindutva streak. Congress hides an abundance of skeletons in its closet; Sanjay Gandhi’s sterilisation campaign and the Turkman gate massacre of impoverished Muslims, unlocking Babri Mosque’s locks allowing vandalism, and worst of all, the Sikh massacre of 1984.

About 80-years ago, Indian philosopher Rabindranath Tagore, who was known for his critique of nationalism, wrote a letter cautioning his fellow Bengali patriot Subhas Chandra Bose, against the divisionary and controversial potential of Vande Mataram – a Bengali song, written in Bankim Chandra’s Anandmath – emphasising that it was a patently religious hymn devoted to the Hindu female deity Durga, and thus:

“No Mussulman can be expected patriotically to worship the ten-handed deity as ‘Swadesh’.”


One of the prominent figures in India’s freedom movement Aurobindo Ghosh, before reforming, not only did not find merging religion and nationalism problematic, but in fact, started an ominous tradition of arms worshipping (Shastra puja) through organizations like Anushilan Samiti, and thus tried to make violence as an acceptable form of political action. For Anushilan Samiti members novel Anandmath was an inspiring text as it had explicitly pointed out the real enemy – Muslims – and the ways to fight them. Down in the south of India, Vinayak Savarkar, author of 1923 book Hindutava, reinforced an exclusivist Hindu nationalism, by reasoning that only those people whose matribhu (motherland) and punyabhu (holy land) was same were true Indians. By this Savarkarian logic, Muslims and Christians did not belong, because their holy lands lay, respectively, in Mecca and Jerusalem. In short, they were alien “others”. For both Savarkar and Golwalker, who are considered as the founding fathers of the Indian version of fascism, “Bharat Mata” essentially meant Hindu nation (Hindu Raster).

For Anushilan Samiti members, Anandmath was an inspirational text as it had explicitly pointed out the real enemy – Muslims – and the ways to fight them. Down in the south of India, Vinayak Savarkar, author of 1923 book Hindutava, reinforced an exclusivist Hindu nationalism, by reasoning that only those people whose matribhu (motherland) and punyabhu (holy land) were the same were true Indians. By this Savarkarian logic, Muslims and Christians did not belong because their holy lands lay, in Mecca and Jerusalem, respectively. In short, they were alien “others”. For both Savarkar and Golwalker, who are considered founding fathers of the Indian version of fascism, “Bharat Mata” essentially meant Hindu nation (Hindu Rasthra).

As Tagore would have said, asking practicing Muslims to worship a concept (Bharat Mata) which originates from a novel where the protagonist Satyanand asks for Muslim blood and welcomes the British rule, is utterly preposterous and ethically problematic.

Whether the Congress party took the aggressive posture against the Muslim legislator to put certain issues to rest, to undercut MIM’s growing influence among the urban Muslim youth, or to pre-empt the likely accusations from the ultranationalists for being too tolerant of the “anti-nationals” thoughts and behaviours, might be a plausible explanation, but by aligning with the theo-fascists, Congress has allowed them to project India in their own terms. This unholy union also let the theo-fascists paint Indian Muslims in an unpatriotic colour, because an Indian Muslim couldn’t bring himself to chant and venerate imaginary “Bharat Mata”, even though he would rather say “Hindustan Zindabad”; but then the latter slogan is in Urdu language and for Hindutva nationalists, anything in Urdu is frowned upon.

Muhammad Tahir

Muhammad Tahir

The author is a PhD candidate of Politics and International Relations at Dublin City University, Ireland. His articles have appeared in The Japan Times, The Caravan, The Express Tribune, Kindle Magazine, and in newspapers in Kashmir. He tweets @TahirFiraz

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • vinsin

    India is already been partitioned for those things, so what does author want to say. Indian constitution is not applicable to Indian Muslims anyway except for murder cases.Recommend

  • kartikey

    Just rabbis nothing else…Recommend

  • HZR

    Other communities are fine any slogan including vande mataram but it is only this ‘minority’ community which aggressively challenges In fact they challenge any law in the name of religion and demand freedom which is denied to others in the own majority lands.Recommend

  • G. Din

    ” …there is a thin line between Hindutva nationalism and Indian nationalism.”
    There is NO line between them. Islam and Muslims do not recognize nationalism at all and are therefore unwelcome everywhere, not only in India because they only owe loyalty to Islam and none else.Recommend

  • Anoop

    Muslims all over the world are getting radicalized. The resurgence of Hindutva has meant radicalization in Muslims is increasing at a rapid pace.

    Lets take a moment and thank Jinnah for diving the Muslims of India into 3 equal parts and giving Hindus and Sikhs and other indigenous Religions of India their country back.Recommend

  • Headstrong

    “An Indian Muslim couldn’t bring himself to chant and venerate imaginary “Bharat Mata”, even though he would rather say “Hindustan Zindabad”; but then the latter slogan is in Urdu language and for Hindutva nationalists, anything in Urdu is frowned upon”
    Puerile journalism, at best. Such a conclusion feeds into the deluded narrative that dominates discourse in Pakistan.
    For the record, I think this is a silly issue, heavily politicised by all sides. The RSS call for ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai’ to be raised at all schools is downright silly and should have been ignored by all right thinking politicians. For Owaisi to challenge the call was downright opportunistic, and playing into the hands of the loony Hindutva brigade. For the Congress and NCP to jump on to the bandwagon illustrates more of said opportunism.
    And, to set the record straight, Waris Pathan said in Assembly that he would not say ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai’ – and kept repeating it. He did not say anything about Hindustan Zindabad until he was interviewed by TV journalists.
    The whole lot of them ought to be dumped!Recommend

  • Patwari

    But…but…see…well…it’s hindus we are talking about.
    They are irrational and suffer from an inferiority complex
    that is 1200 years old. Same length as the Muslim rule
    over Bharat.Recommend

  • 19640909rk .

    Muslims had a choice to leave, since they demanded Pakistan. So they have no choice here.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Not making the land, river, mountain and air which sustains you as your mother and divine being and making distant desert and rocky place sacred place has made the native converts rootless parasite. Prime example of it is Pakistan. The parasite has been living off on dole given by the Anglos and now by Cheenis. Parasitic Pakistani elite made the native convert AllahRakhi’s kids into cannon fodder for the wars of Anglos and Arabs. Natives Dharma, organic spirituality cannot be compared to fake faiths or religions designed developed specifically by imperialistic en-slavers like Romans and later by Kuresh tribe of Bedouins.which morphed into colonialism and extreme capitalism and equally moronic or devilish response to it of Communism.Recommend

  • The Truth

    This is the reason why what the author says is bogus. He quotes Rabindra Nath Tagore when India was not divided and two Islamic states were not yet created which would eventually be cleansed of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. Gven that truth, Hindus in India have every right and duty to frame Indian nationalism in Hindu-Sikh-Jain-Buddhist terms , because Islamic nationalism already has two states.Recommend

  • The Truth

    Islamic nationalism created two countries for those who had problem with Hindutva (Hindu + Buddhist + Jain + Siks ) nationalism.Recommend

  • wb

    Dear Mohammed Tahir,

    I want to challenge you. This is a simple challenge you can win by quoting facts.

    Please show me one country in the world, in the last 1400 years where Muslims have been in sizeable population and have lived in peace with any nationalism, secularism, communism, socialism or dictatorship for a small period of time.

    One country. Simple challenge.

    Saudi? No? Syria? No? Pakistan? No? Bangladesh? No? Indonesia? No? America? No? How about Brussels and Paris? No? How about Madrid and London? No? How about Kashmir and Palestine? No? How about Burma and Srilanka? No? How about Thailand and Australia? No? How about Washington DC and New York? No? How about Russia and Xingiang? No? How about Afghanistan and Iraq? No? How about Nigeria and Egypt? No? How about Lebanon and Morocco? No?

    The problem lies with Muslims. YOU have never lived in peace with others or with each other. If they don’t have others to kill, they kill each other.

    Your Hinduphobia and Indophobia is making you sick and the remedy is to look within.Recommend

  • abhi

    I think the bigger problem is Political Islam and Mulla centricity. This is already resulting in Bomb blasts all over world.Recommend

  • Bana Post

    Where ever the muslims are minority they will fight with the majority where they are majority they will wipe out the minority They would’t live in peace with others This a bitter but generally agreed historical fact .And they will say Islam is a religion of peaceRecommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Vande Matram calls for a Hindu deity, Durga while the Sikhs are monotheistic and do not worship her. Bharat Mata too is venerated in the form of a goddess which again the Sikhs do not believe in. The Congress and Hindutva nationalism has historically not been very cosy with the Sikhs, the Operation Blue Star in Amritsar and the anti-Sikh riots of 1984 come to mind. Indira Gandhi was assasinated by the Sikhs and they fought for independence from India and to create a country of their own: Khalistan.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    If Muslims of India left for Pakistan, then Bollywood would be brought to its knees!Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Native converts Pakistanis may be however they have always been historically, culturally, ethnically and linguistically different from Indians. The Indus Region (Pakistanis) has always been ruled for a long period of time by different kingdoms than Mainland and Peninsular India. Pakistanis (Punjabis, Sindhis, Baloch and Pashtuns) have always had a different culture as compared to Indians (UPites, Marathis, Bengalis, Tamils, Malayalis etc.) When have Pakistanis been cannon fodder for the English and Arabs? You talk so much about native dharma which is mainly a religion imposed by invading Aryans on a mostly Dravidian populace (which India mostly is even today) to subdue them into the caste system making the natives shudras and oppressing them.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    I dont see whats really so great about ‘indigenous’ Hinduism. It is a religion (mostly an abstract set of ideas) that was brought and imposed by the invading Aryans on the native Dravidian populace,(Indians still are mostly Dravidian by blood), to subdue them and oppress them by making them the shudras in the backwards caste system.Recommend

  • ajeet

    That’s why Muslims need to go to the country which they got in 1947. Muslims can’t exist in peace with anyone nor among themselves.Recommend

  • Anoop

    I am a Dravidian. I speak a language which is older than Islam. I practice a culture which is equally old. There is nothing called Aryan invasion. There has been migration(migration is part of humanity and is natural) and Hindu culture has been enriched with different ideas. I am very proud of that. It was not imposed, nobody converted, there was free exchange of ideas.
    That is why India is one country, with 20 odd recognized languages and dozens of Religions and hundreds of ethnic mixes. Hindu culture, which includes strains like Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism is holding India together. Pakistan couldn’t survive 25 years in spite of overwhelming Muslim population and one official language – Urdu.

  • Anoop

    Regurgitating from your Pakistani history book, eh?

    You do realize there was a Sikh PM for 10 years, correct? He was put in by the same party which you accuse of anti-Sikh riots.

    You also do realize that a substantial % of India’s Army is comprised of Sikhs. Consequently there have been many Army chiefs, Navy chiefs and also in Airforce.

    Why on Earth would Sikhs join the Army in droves if they are fighting to create this mythical Khalistan?

    You guys are so deep in denial that 10 years there was a Sikh PM ruling India and you kept on believing in Khalistan. Recommend

  • Anoop

    Trust me. Alcohol drinking Khans are not Muslims by any standards. Saif and SRK have campaigned for Alcohol brands many-a-times. I’m sure many don’t even have a problem with Pork.

    Plus its only Hindi cinema which has so many Muslims. India is blessed with dozens of movie industries. The most successful ones are actually in the South of India, which has produced movies like Ghajini, Wanted, etc. What you consider Bollywood adapts the same stories into Hindi.

    Google “bollywood movies copied from south” and see for yourself.

    Dude, trust me, you barely know the depth of India.

    When countries like Pakistan struggle to have one stable movie industries, India has it in the dozens. India is rich in Art and loves to express. There are 1.6 Billion Muslim in the world and only about a Billion Hindus. Yet, our Industries are bigger and more vibrant and sustainable. Its so open that Muslims have only one Film Industry to turn to – The Indian ones.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    History or His Story written by Darbari clerk for his master who paid for it? Culture? Your Vivah/marriage follows all Hindu/Sikh traditions. Linguistically? Grammar is Sanskrit based. Common people use native words which are in their pure Sanskrit form or are corruption of it. Persianized and Arabized Urdu is Darbar imposed. Darbar is supported by foreign masters like Anglos and Arabs. In 18th century for 40 years Marathas ruled over Panjab beyond Attock. But no one will tell you because it is not in the interest of Anglos, Anglos or their local proxies including ConAngrezi JNUwalas & their fake KaamRed HisStorians. Balochi Sindhi and Marathi have much more in common in terms of vocabulary and pronunciation than between Marathi & Assami or Bangali. On one shore of Sindhu Sagar you have Mumb+Ai (mother Mumba) on the northern end Mai Karach+Ai and on the other you have Dub+Ai.

    The reason AfPak is lawless barbaric land today is that you are cuting your own roots in becoming more Arab than Bedouin, fake Mongols by giving yourself Khan title and your elite is trying to be more Anglo than Anglos. YRecommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Dharma literally means Natural Law. Urdu literally means Turkish Army Tent in Turki language. Aryan is 19th century word invented by East India Company clerks. Arya means noble in Sanskrit. Romanized or brutalized Europeans lost their Pagan (which literally meant civil in old Latin… yes Pagans were more civil than barbaric Romans) roots and history. So when in 19th century when loot and plunder from colonies started pouring in they had to invent new history of glory to get justification for their loot and plunder of heathen natives of far of colonies. Thus racial Aryan word came about. Aryan Invasion Theory is bunkum even b common sense. Rama was brown, Krishna was dark and Pagan Putra Shriman Hitler is telling us that Aryan were blue eyed white blonde people. Draupadi of Mahabharat was beautiful dark woman when her husband Arjun was fair just has his mother Kunti. Anglos had York in their old land and that is why they named the five boroughs around native Indian settlement of Manhattan as New York. We do not see any where else outside of India Kashi, PushpPura (Peshawar), Lahore (LohPur), Kassur (KushPur), LakshmanPur (Laknow) Haridwar or their shortened form , supposedly from where these imaginary Aryan people came. Indians have their history in their DNA and not in some printed book of darbaris. That is why even when you name Hindu numerals as Arabic, Bell Labs Maths, Computer Science department is dominated by Hindus of India. As your Hindu-Sikh population dwindled then your sanity and humanity also went down.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Dravid in Sanskrit means Dakshin. English Dixi (south) is corruption of Dakshin. Rahul Dravid is Bramhin and not Kshudra. Most of the sages of Indian spirituality were non Bramhin, in fact majority were Kshudra. The reason is simple Kshudra is more connected to the nature. Sage Vyas who created the longest poem Mahabharat was of fisher man caste. BTW Caste is a Portuguese word. Valmiki was a tribal, Macaulay defined out caste. Varna is not same as caste. Varna was fluid. So Macaulay defined so called “untouchable” Kalidas could become one of the greates Sanskrit dramatist and state Kavi/poet of Raja Bhoj. Shivaji the great was landless farm hand two generations back. Modi is tad above so called Dalit. Varna turned into birth based Jati and rigid caste in last 300 years when barbaric Muslim invaders created their local proxies by giving land titles. Anglos used divide and rule and for that they started doing caste based census. ConAngrez from 1947 have been using caste for Votebanky politics.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Guru Govind Singh Ji’s family goddess is Bhagwati. Banda Bahaddur who created and developed Khalsa army was a Yogi whom Guru Govind SinghJi found in Paithan, Maharashtra. Guru GovindSingh Ji himself took refuge in Nanded, which is in Maratha land.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Let them go. Bollywood is a ganja fed by the corrupt and criminals to masses. India is progressing in spite of Bollywood & Kirket. Repeat with me India is democratic, progressive and secular because it is Dharmic in spirituality and culture. Religion is a Latin word which is basically means armed legions created Romans, mostly of crooks and criminals among natives of middle-east (in the beginning Jews) by enticing them with the share of loot and plunder of other natives who are not part of this legion.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    All this does not change the fact that the Sikhs are fundamentally a monothiestic people, which is completely the opposite of Hindus. Hindutva Nationalism is based on a Hindu centric version of India based on Hinduism. The Sikh religion is completely different to that. Indeed, it is a monothiestic religion and its scriptures contain many verses from Muslim saints like Baba Fariduddin Ganjshakar etc.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Merely appointing a Sikh just to show that your party isnt fundamentally anti-Sikh doesnt really change anything. Manmohan Singh isnt greatly loved in Punjab. Secondly, the reason the Sikhs form such a large number of the Army despite forming only 2% of the population is all due to the British martial races theory by which Tamils, UPites, Bengalis, Marathis, Biharis etc., who today form the majority of Indians, were considered weak and non-martial. If you are willing to say that the majority of Indians are weak and only 2% of their population must save them, then its totally upto you.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    So what if they drink alcohol and are not ‘practicing’ Muslims. Many Muslims in Pakistan too occasionally drink alcohol. It doesnt change their religion. The fact of the matter is Bollywood has a large and disappropriate number of Muslims Pashtuns in it and a large number of Punjabis (the Kapoors, Khannas etc) despite Punjabis forming only 3% of the population. Pashtuns arent native to Indian land while Punjabis form a very miniscule part of it yet they are drastically over represented in Bollywood. Funny that you compare the numbers of Muslims and Hindus and the film industry despite the fact that Bollywood is basically here because of Muslims.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Are you honestly denying the Aryan invasion theory? How else would you explain most of India speaking Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindi, Bengali, Marathi, Rajasthani etc. and their immense similarity with Greek, Latin, English etc. It is a theory known and accepted all over the world, I am not sure why Hindutva nationalists are now denying it all of a sudden. Early Hinduism was similar to Greek, Roman and Norse mythology not to mention the Persians. The linguistic origins of the word caste and Aryan is irrelevant here. The caste system has been an integral part of Hinduism and many of its scriptures make references to it. Balochi is not linguistically similar to Marathi as it is an Iranian language rather than an Indo-Aryan one. Aryan invasion is proven by countless DNA tests and historical data which i suggest you research.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    There is no point in denying the Aryan invasion theory as it is widely accepted by scholars throughout the world and is backed with proof. How else would you explain most of India speaking Indo-Aryan langauges like Marathi, Bihari, Hindi, Bengali etc. which are similar to Greek, Latin, English etc. Hinduism too in its early Rigvedic form was extremely similar to Persian, Greek and Roman mythology. The caste system (an integral part of Hinduism, referenced to in scriptures) in which the invading Aryans controlled the indigenous Dravidians by making them Shudras and themselves the Brahmins or Kshatriyas. There is countless historical and genetical proof for it, no need to deny it for Hindutva nationalist purposes. Pakistan is very much in place today in case you havent noticed, it has ‘survived’, but that is another matter. Nobody is denying that the Dravdian culture or the Aryan invasion predated the arrival of Islam though.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher
    This is the link for the Harappa DNA Project, which is a genetical study by an independent American genealogical institute. You can see in it that Pakistanis (Punjabis, Pashtuns Balochs and Sindhis) have more Baloch (here it means Iranic, nothing to do with Baloch ancestry) blood and Indians (Marathis, Tamils, UPites, Bengalis etc.) have more South Indian which here means Dravidian blood in them. Only the results of Indian Punjabis are similar to those of Pakistanis and they form only 3% of the population while Pakistani Muhajirs form only 8% of the population, both overwhelming minorities. It really goes on to show that we are two genetically, linguistically, culturally and historically differwnt people.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher
    This is the link for the Harappa DNA Project, in case if you had any doubts regarding the Aryan invasion. The Pakistanis (Punjabis, Balochs, Sindhis, Pashtuns) have a majority Baloch (which here means Iranic, nothing to do with modern Baloch ancestry) ancestry while Indians (Marathis, Bengalis, UPites, Bihari, Tamils, MPites, APites etc.) have a majority South Indian which means Dravdian ancestry. This goes on to prove the Aryan invasion and the start of Hinduism as the religion of the invader to rule over the natives.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Also, it is not the Pakistanis but the Indians who have given up their native customs. I freely admit that like Sanskrit, Punjabi and Sindhi are Indo-Aryan languages (Urdu is half Iranian half Sanskrit). As proven by the Harappa DNA Project, Pakistanis have more Iranic (which would mean Aryan) blood. Aryan is not the same Aryan of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis who basically made it synonymous with Nordic. Indians meanwhile have majority South Indian Dravidian blood. This means that they not only gave up their native religion to adopt Hinduism of the Aryan invader which made them Shudras, they have up their language to adopt Sanskrit, and all the customs of the invader. Pakistanis adopted the Iranian script which their ancestors had (since Indo-Aryan split from Iranian in 2000 BC). Originally the Rig Veda was conceived in modern day Punjab and Sindh however as Hinduism moved eastwards into the Ganges Valley and Peninsular South India the caste system developed and it got mixed with some Dravidian customs. You still havent refuted my facts about Pakistan (Indus Region) being historically seperate from Mainland and Peninsular India and being ruled by different empires such as Indo-Greeks, Indo-Scythians, Achaemenids, Kushans, Parthians, White Huns etc. Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Aryan is all bunkum created by racist colonialists. Please discuss with experts before becoming native hating rootless parasites.

  • Salim Alvi

    Discuss here with experts and not fool common AllahRakhi’s kids to ake them 26/11 terrorists like Ajmal Kasab.

  • Jatt Sher

    Why are you giving me links to Hindutva forums while I am here debating it with you? I have given you genetic, historic and linguistic proof for the Aryan invasion. Stop posting nonsensical and incoherent comments like ‘AllahRakhi’ and what not. You have not given any scientific proof for your argument while my entire argument is based on it.

    Also, you still haven’t addressed the fact that Pakistan (Indus Region) was only united with Mainland and Peninsular India for only a short 90 years and that too by Buddhist Ashoka, before the arrival of Islam and later united by Muslim Mughals and Christian British. Punjab is referred to as Bahika in Hindu scriptures, the land where caste system and dharma does not prevail. For the vast majority of its history, Pakistan (Indus Region) has been separate from Mainland and Peninsular India. Try arguing with facts rather than gibberish comments.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    There is nothing called Aryan. It is as fake as today Paki ChouHan is calling himself 4 times more Chinese Han than Han themselves. Such Darbari ChouNLie r just that – a lie.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Because Hindu is native Bharatiya. The experts there are PhDs and have devoted themselves to the subject. They are not rootless parasites. Many of them live in the west just like yours truly. I was fed HisStory ganja by Nehru, the coconut. When I landed first time in Bell Labs, I was surprised so many Hindu (more than 30%) in fundamental research in Maths, Physics, VLSI and Comp Sc. I wondered if numerals are called Arabic why dont I see any Arab here or in any major institution such as MIT or Caltech or in PARC or Watson Center. I don’t see an greek also. Whites esp Anglos were getting reduced to minority year by year. Then I realized that Macaulay’s text books were kept alive by Nehru so India remained soft colonized. Now even for America’s real progress and prosperity such lies are not good. Europeans are realizing it already.

    BTW, Valmiki was tribal and his ashram was in Punjab. That is why you have Lahor (city founded by Loh) and Kassur (city founded by Kush). Loh & Kush were sons of Rama and were raised in Valmiki’s ashram.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    A persian told me how Islam came to Persia and how the native spiritulity and dharma was wiped out in 40 years. Zorastrians had to take a refuge in India, Bedouin Barbarians gave a darbari fatwa that unless one proclaims he or she was Muslim, that person will not have any rights and own property which included wives and children. This I heard from him in 1989, when I did not even care about history or politics.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    I have proved to you why Hinduism is not native to India. Unless you give me scientifc, linguistic, historical ir genetic proof that shows us otherwise, like I have given to you, this debate will be pointless. Your comments barely make any sense. The first part of your comment is totally unrelated to the topic here. Rama, whether he did exist or not, too is part of a foreign Aryan invading people who imposed their reilgion on native Dravdians. When Rama in the Ramayana travels to South India and Sri Lanka, the people their are portrayed as drak skinned demon monkeys. There are various verses in Hindu scriptures that talk of dark skinned people in a very negative and disparaging way. It all goes to prove that Hindooism is a foreign tool invented to subdue the native.Recommend

  • Shiv

    No issues, take them all! But please open the gates for them. But then what if they still their behinds here?Recommend

  • Shiv

    You have to open the gates first. And when you do that, the problem is that instead of guys from here moving, those from the other side could rush through. Scary really.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Yes they would stay behind, because they are cashing in on India’s inherent inferiority complex where Muslims Pashtuns and Punjabis who form only 2.5% of Indias population are worshipped due to having fair skin and are extremepy over represented, forming a majority in Bollywood. Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Its funny that you talk about opening gates and all when the majority of your Bollywood actors are from our side.
    Behind the camera, there are Karan Johar, Vidhu Vinod Chopra and Yash Chopra of Lahore. The Kapoor clan of Lyallpur, Dev Anand of Lahore, Rajendra Kumar of Sialkot, Jeetendra, Prem Chopra, Anil Kapoor, Dharmendra, Sunil Dutt of Jhelum, Rajesh Khanna, Vinod Khanna, Suresh Oberoi of Quetta, and their star kids are Punjabis. Composer Roshan (father of Rakesh and grandfather of Hrithik) was from Gujranwala.
    Also all the Khans of Bollywood are ethnic Pashtuns with roots in and around Peshawar and are Urdu speaking. There are very little indigeneous Indian actors due to Indian’s inherent inferiority complex and to worship everything Punjabi and Pashtun i.e from the Indus Region (Pakistan). Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    You havent given me any proof for denial of Aryan invasion, while I have given you a lot scientific, linguistic, genetic and historical studies for the Aryan or Indo-European invasion.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Proof is there was no Aryan word before 19th century. There are no Haridwar, Kashi, Pushpapur (Peshawar), LohNagar (Lahore) KushNagar (Kassur) or Sri Nagar outside from India from where these fictitious Aryan people came. There was no Europe as well before medieval time.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    There is no need for exact similarity between names of cities in Central Asia or Iran to prove Aryan invasion. Asking for exact similarity of names just goes on to prove your ignorance about linguistics and history. As if the vast amount of similarity between Indo-European languages was not enough proof for the Aryan invasion, I have given genetic and historic proof as well (similarity between Hinduism and other Iranian/European religions). Indra and Mithra are gods that are common between Iranic and Hindu mythology. As if all the other proof was not enough.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Have you heard of Shake Shalivahan who reached almost to Moscow chasing away Han barbarians?

    By the way what is Aryan? Do you eat it with kawar bhakar or is it part of Italian Pizza which in reality came from China.Recommend