Is the Mughal Empire to blame for the schism created between Hindus and Muslims?

Published: March 30, 2016
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Shah Jahan receives his three eldest sons and Asaf Khan during his accession ceremonies on 8 March 1628. Painted by Bichitr, c. 1630-5. Royal Collection. Wikimedia Commons PHOTO: http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk

Shah Jahan receives his three eldest sons and Asaf Khan during his accession ceremonies on 8 March 1628. Painted by Bichitr, c. 1630-5. Royal Collection. Wikimedia Commons
PHOTO: http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk The Taj Mahal, the Badshahi Mosque -the list of accomplishments is as long as their tortuous and sometimes torturous reign.

When we think of the Mughals, we immediately conjure images of artistic splendour, architectural grandeur, and military might. There is much to support the argument that the Mughal rule was the envy of the world at its peak with its efficient institutions, its system of Mansabdari, its large military, and its achievements in artistic and architectural design. The Taj Mahal, the Badshahi Mosque, Bibi ka Maqbara, Shalimar Gardens, the Deccan expeditions, the Rajput subjugation, the Maratha skirmishes – the list of accomplishments is as long as their tortuous and sometimes torturous reign.

However, what classroom history often conveniently forgets is how different each Mughal sultan was from the next, how their wars of succession often lay waste to the ideological ideals of the predecessor and the financial fortitude of the royal treasury, and most important of all: that they are not merely relics of a bygone era, and that there are valuable lessons we can still draw from our glorious past which, if you listen to the present day “experts”, was magnificent as long as religious values were adhered to and became obsolete and decadent when they were discarded.

It is not so black and white, of course; historical truth has a habit of being more complex and context-dependent than what our socio-political and ethnic leanings permit us to believe. The Mughal Empire has to be judged with the impartiality that history not only deserves but demands. The question thus arises that if the Mughal rule extended (at one time) from the Sulaiman Mountains to the Bay of Bengal and from the Himalayas to the Arabian Sea, how did they fall so spectacularly from grace and within a few decades were ousted from their once glorious sultanate first by the Marathas in Western India and eventually by the East India Company?

There are myriad ways to answer this question but the most ubiquitously cited is the one where the Mughal sultans lost their way in hedonistic pursuits. The accomplishments of their ancestors, it is said, had given them a life of pleasure and ease, and their profligate lifestyles had blinded them to what seems in hindsight to be an obviously insidious threat of the growing European presence on their shores. It was a textbook case of the fourth stage of decline of Al-Asabiyyah as Ibn Khaldun had once put it so eloquently in his book Muqaddimah. This explanation seems straightforward enough but to accept it without questioning it would be to let one’s socio-political proclivities shape the truth.

Historians argue over what combination and permutation of popularly cited reasons are the most and least important in explaining the downfall of the Mughals but they’re in unanimous agreement that most of the reasons have a direct causal relationship to the policies of the last great Mughal King, Aurangzeb Alamgir (r. 1658-1707). An orthodox Sunni Muslim, he rose to the throne in a bloody war of succession that historians have since labelled a war between two ideologies; the liberalist, inclusive ideology of Dara Shikoh (Aurangzeb’s brother) and the Sunni Muslim orthodox views of Aurangzeb. His reign was marked by years of wars of expansion into previously uncharted territories but it was also marred by a series of rebellions of his majority non-Muslim and Shi’ite subjects borne out by the emperor’s policies of faith-based persecution and wantonly antagonising the erstwhile allies of the Mughals because of religious differences.

In Europe, meanwhile, this was the era of Enlightenment; John Locke, Voltaire, and Diderot were, to varying degrees, championing the cause of the separation of the church and state, presenting treatises against inequality and propounding progress through dialogue. It was these progressive ideas which laid the foundations for the Constitution of the United States of America and the French Revolution – with its motto of liberté, égalité, fraternite (liberty, equality, and brotherhood) – almost a century later. They had learned their lessons; religious persecution was going out of style (Louis XIV being the notable exception), the hegemony of the Catholic Church had already shrunk with the Reformation a century earlier but with the Treaty of Westphalia (1648) after the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648), and the subsequent rise of the nation state and nationalism, people started valuing their nationalistic similarities more than they did their religious differences.

It may be a coincidence that these Europeans of the Age of Enlightenment became the de facto rulers of India exactly fifty years (Battle of Plassey, 1757) after Aurangzeb Alamgir’s death when the real backlash of his policies was felt by his predecessors, but there can be no doubt that his iron fist rule and intolerant reign over a multi-ethnic India not only laid the foundations for the downfall of the empire but created a schism between Hindus and Muslims that the intervening centuries have found difficult to heal.

Thus in summary, the grandeur of the Mughal Empire was not lost because religion and religious values were discarded; it suffered its downfall because religion started to play too central a role in policy making. These events are now more pertinent then ever; the past, as William Faulkner reminds us, is not dead and buried; in fact, it isn’t even past.

Do you think the Mughal Empire is responsible for the schism created between Hindus and Muslims?

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Maajid Bashir

Maajid Bashir

The author is an MBA from LUMS, and a history aficionado.

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • Gurion

    Sensible write up.
    But when exactly did Muslims gel with any civilization or culture?Recommend

  • Grace

    The Mughals gave the region its present culture and traditions. You could say the Mughals made the region because without them, there would be no clothing (except saris), no food ( except Indian thali) and no music ( except tabla since even sitar comes from Iran). Why don’t people understand that India is not a real country but an area made by foreign powers – either British or Mughals or someone else. India can easily become 500 countries but British made them.Recommend

  • HZR

    A look at the destroyed temples will prove that the Mughals were no respecter of Hindus or their religion.Varnasi and Mathura are classic examples even in this age and time. Collecting Zaziya was another example of their love for the Hindus!Recommend

  • vinsin

    Mughal were better than Muslims rulers before than. Atleast Mughals cannot be blamed for Hindu Genocide may be Delhi massacre by Akbar.
    Akbar and Jahagir can hardly be called as Muslims. Dara Shikoh was also not liberal.
    Mughals were certainly responsible for masses becoming poor and instead of investing in the country were simple wasting on grandeur architecture and not building a single university.
    If Muslims keep on calling Hindus Kafir, demanding Jizya, Pakistan, forced conversion by marriage, making women to do Jauhar to avoid necrophilia, supproting child marriages and purdah system, treating Muslims invaders as God, breaking temples etc, you cant expect friendship.Recommend

  • varuag

    granted space is limited but such caricature of history results in sloppy understanding. Mughal empire was more syncretic than the Delhi Sultanate which it succeeded. The Mughals used everything from marriage, mansabdari et al to include Hindu Rajas in the ruling dispensation. This continued even during Aurangzeb’s time (at a much lesser scale) and his successor Bahadur Shah I (1707-1712) who revoked Jaziya and mended the fences. In fact Banda Bahadur’s rebellion and his brutal end meant that Muslim-Skih relations plummeted at this time (Banda Bahadur executed by FarrukhSiyar in 1715). The cleavage started via indoctrination post 1857 Revolt by the English as a means to age-old divide and rule. Immediately after 1857, muslims were treated badly (Bahadur Shah Zafar’s leadership of revolt, Wahabi uprisings, Dudu Mian et al). Post formation of Congress, Britishers realised the threat of nationalism and reversed course to prop up Muslim leadership (Muslim league formation in 1906 to separate electorate to partition of Bengal). Rest of history is known.

    The answer to blog title is an unequivocal “NO! are you kidding me? ” oh ……MBA ……….figures………

    schisms will always exist between religions (or sects if its a uni-religious nation). differences of provinces, languages, ethnicities et al will remain. Question is can we still live and let live?Recommend

  • Headstrong

    Yawn. You people just can’t stop obsessing over India/ Hindus can you? Is the Mughal Empire to blame….? Who gives a **** ? If there is a schism, let’s address it instead of continually raking up the past.

    Recommend

  • varuag

    granted space is limited but such caricature of history results in sloppy understanding. Mughal empire was more syncretic than the Delhi Sultanate which it succeeded. The Mughals used everything from marriage, mansabdari et al to include Hindu Rajas in the ruling dispensation. This continued even during Aurangzeb’s time (at a much lesser scale) and his successor Bahadur Shah I (1707-1712) who revoked Jaziya and mended the fences. In fact Banda Bahadur’s rebellion and his brutal end meant that Muslim-Skih relations plummeted at this time (Banda Bahadur executed by FarrukhSiyar in 1715). The cleavage started via indoctrination post 1857 Revolt by the English as a means to age-old divide and rule. Immediately after 1857, muslims were treated badly (Bahadur Shah Zafar’s leadership of revolt, Wahabi uprisings, Dudu Mian et al). Post formation of Congress, Britishers realised the threat of nationalism and reversed course to prop up Muslim leadership (Muslim league formation in 1906 to separate electorate to partition of Bengal). Rest of history is known.

    The answer to blog title is an unequivocal “NO! are you kidding me? ”

    schisms will always exist between religions (or sects if its a uni-religious nation). differences of provinces, languages, ethnicities et al will remain. Question is can we still live and let live?Recommend

  • wb

    Use common sense

    Muslims started killing each other on the day the prophet died. The fight for the successorship started even before the prophet’s body was buried. Wahabis hate everyone else. Deobandhis hate Barelvis, Ahmadis are hated by everyone. Shias hate Sunnis and Sunnis hate Shias and this hatred stared almost 1400 years ago.

    Muslims are at war with Christians in Europe and North America. Muslims are at war with Jews in Israel. Muslims are at war with Hindus/Christians/Jains/Sikh in India. Muslims are at war with Atheists in China. Muslims are at war with Buddhists in Srilanka and Burma. Muslims have already wiped out Zorostrians, Assyrians, Pharaohs.

    Muslims are at war with themselves in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Saudi, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Nigeria

    Who is to blame? MUGHALS? Are you going to blame Mughals?

    Recommend

  • Milind A

    The Hindu-Muslim schism happened, when the barbaric hordes from the middle east / Afghanistan (Bin Qasim, Ghazni , Ghori) invaded India and laid waste a self-sufficient and prosperous country, plundered temples, butchered Hindus or took their women slaves… The Mughals (baring a Dara Shikoh) ruled on similar lines oppressing Hindus…Recommend

  • Historian

    This is an outdated view of the decline of the Mughal Empire, rooted in the writings of 19th century British Orientalists eager to justify their rule of South Asia. It is a great shame that in the 21st century, Pakistani authors continue to repeat it uncritically. For the current view, see works such C.A.Bayly, Indian Society and the Making of the British Empire. As Bayly argues, it is not religion, but the structural changes overtaking the region that account for the decline. These not only explain Aurangzeb’s policies, but also the fact that many Sunnis (not just Hindus and Shias) rose against the state. Please read more updated works, rather than repeating this ideologically driven thesis.Recommend

  • mimi sur

    Yes, Perhaps Islamic Mughals were the last ones to hit the nail . Before that many invaders came and go . An Islamic barbarian from Afghanistan attacked Hindu religious sites multiple times. Mean time, opportunist Islamic rulers in India massacred non-Muslims at their will . We only remember very important incidents of history. They came to a non-muslim country and imposed taxes on non-muslims . Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Hindu is native to India (which includes Afghanistan, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and even Indonesia) where as Islam and Christianity are imposed on the natives by the invaders and colonialists. Islam and Christianity are enslaving and imperialistic. The were created by imperial Rome and city of Khilafas. Hinduism is spirituality and is organic.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    All Indian Music, Dance, Paintings, Architecture cam from Hindu temple. All ragas were realized in deep meditations and were expressed as prayer, bhjan etc in temple, same is true about all dance forms. Indian recipes were developed in temple as offering to a particular deity and also public eating. Even Maths, Chemistry, Geology, Architecture developed and got disseminated in temples and GuruKuls India was Ganatantra ie One country but number of states. Indian history is in its Hindu DNA. That Hindu DNA is the reason behind Science, Computing, Maths & Finance dominated by Indians. Hindus gave numerals, geometry, algebra and even calculus..Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    India needs to merge with China so that natives can drive out Islam and Christianity which act as tools for enslavement and colonization of the natives. India needs to learn from China how to solve Islamic problem. China wiped out Islam.Recommend

  • siesmann

    Music has been a sin in Islam.Arabs hardly knew music,Persians a little.Just inventing sitar does not qualify as progenitors of music.Music books have been extant in Indian culture from as far back as 6-7th century,extensive and scholarly.ABAYAS and chador hardly qualify as contribution to clothing.The variety of Indian foods has been extant in different regions of India.Perhaps Muslims added a few dishes to the extensive menu.Neither most of Muslims came from Arabia,Persia orTurkey.Most are local converts to Islam,voluntarily as well as forced.History manufactured by Mullahs is just mythology.And that is what is taught in Pakistan.Recommend

  • babu

    grace ! be ready to leave this forum gracefullyRecommend

  • http://thoughtsandotherthing.blogspot.fr/2015/09/hyderabad-as-i-know-and-feel.html Supriya Arcot

    True, The basic tenet of Hinduism is that a person is born in it and cannot be converted in its fold. Thats why there is no concept of Hindus /Sindhus / Indians invading any country to ‘spread’ its religion .Since there is no missionary zeal inherent , theres no legitimate reason to breach any borders / enslave any one ….Recommend

  • BlackHat

    Mughal empire, starting with Akbar (with the exception of Aurangzeb), evolved into a highly syncretic culture. Indian concept of “king of Kings” – Rajadhiraja/Chakravartin was adopted, as was the idea of “God King” – Deva Raja giving “Darshan” to his subjects. Indian royal rituals were also adopted. One example being Tulabharam, where all sorts of items (including grain and gold) were weighed against the Emperor to be distributed to the needy. Indian festivals like Holi and Diwali were also celebrated. Mughal royal family only drank water of the Ganges, which had to transported to wherever they stayed, and food cooked with same. The Mughal court had imbibed a lot of Rajput culture. There was intellectual and artistic ferment that impacted every field of knowledge and the arts. The idea of religious “tolerance” also became one of the social characteristic.

    It was for this reason that the Indian people rallied behind the last Mughal emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar against the British in 1857.

    A country of India’s diversity, can only be ruled by an inclusive system. Aurangzeb initiated the decline of the Mughals when he broke with the implicit understanding.Recommend

  • wb

    True. Also Mughals invented rocket science, nuclear bombs, brain surgery, computers, internet…

    Heck, even apple computer was started by a Mughal named Mohammed Javed.

    I almost forgot. Mughals invented the peels on banans. Before Mughals, bananas were just fruit fleshes dangling from plantains. Mughals covered bananas with peels.Recommend

  • http://thoughtsandotherthing.blogspot.fr/2015/09/hyderabad-as-i-know-and-feel.html Supriya Arcot

    I totally agree with your last sentence .Recommend

  • Bibloo

    Ah there,..The Banarsi Mullah,
    waxing forth in pidgen Raj’s English. His foetid rant.
    Allegedly, hindu culture, is 5000 years old. Which is hard to
    believe, All they learned in that spanse of time is Sati, a layered
    caste system,
    Untouchables, Touchables, Partly Touchables, Maybe Touchables,
    that guarantees Hindustan will be a backward, repressive, racist
    home of the hindus. An Untouchable, genius, child will NEVER
    be allowed to reach his potential, NEVER. Simply because he is
    a low caste hindu. Imagine what goes to waste!! As they say.
    A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Well, some good did come out of it.
    Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    There is nothing native about Hinduism. It is basically an abstract set of ideas and deities that were introduced by the invading Aryans from Persia and Central Asia circa 2000 BC on a mainly Dravidian (which India still is mostly) population to subjugate them and make them Shudras in the backwards caste system.Recommend

  • One day soon…

    When the Imperial Japanese Army came to liberate India, there was no such tension between the muslim and Hindu. To overthrow the evil British reign, the Hindu and the Muslim worked together and fought the British Empire, protecting the flank of the IJA. Even though the great Japanese army ultimately failed to destroy the British Raj government, local Indians (AND Pakistan) saw the bravery of their own men. In the eyes of young Indian civillians at the time, it wasn’t just Japanese troops fighting the British, it was Hindus and Pakistanis, their own people, standing up to the then “Master” British! And they were winning! (The Free Indian Army actually pushed the British deep into India before having to become guerillas as the Japanese front collapsed. Quick Note: (I know there was no Pakistan at the time but let’s just call the Muslims soldiers that for the sake of brevity) Even though Japan failed to destroy the evil British India government, India still gained independance (albeit with less capable leaders like Ghandi and Nehru) Why is that? Because Japan only showed the Indians hope in that defeating the British was possible! It was actually the Indian peoples themselves who won their own liberty but they couldn’t have done it without their Hindus and Muslims fighting together. My point is, young Muslims and Hindus of today should stop fighting this pointless cyber war and remember their ancestors. The forefathers (And I mean forefathers before the Indo-Pakistani wars) risked their lives for each other and died for each other even though they had different religons. Look past all the hate created by Ghandi’s ineffiency and Nehru’s stupid goverment mistakes (The Indo-Pakistani Wars) and remeber what the Indian and Pakistani Muslims and Hindus really were. Brothers. I believe my country’s destiny will always be tied with that of India and Pakistan, so I feel obliged to point out that before all those stupid wars you were both brothers in arms. So don’t forget that. I don’t mean to suggest anything like “India and Pakistan should re-unite”, I only want India and Pakistan to be allies again. Regardless of weather you are an Indian or a Pakistani, Hindu or Muslim, please say a prayer for your two countries people to stop the pointless cyber war. And PS: Stop shifting blame onto the Mhgual Empire when you know the real cause of the hatred between Hindus and Muslims! Recommend

  • One day soon…

    Hey, it’s me again. I just wanted to clear up the confusion of my last post. Tensions will always exist between people of differing religons and certainly the Muslims and Hindus were no exception. However, with a foreign and common oppressor, the British, the Muslims and Hindus united. There was always tensions between muslims and indians but when they united truly spectacular things happened, like the liberation of the Indian sub-continent. If it had been Bose in charge, he would have organized independance parades and other such distractions to keep the patriotic spirit of the at the time “One” India together, keeping the once united peoples from devolving into mobs. Unfortunately, Ghandi one the worst leaders, was chosen instead and he basically lost all the progress that Bose had made. (I’m not saying Ghandi didn’t contribute anything to the liberation of India but he had his hands full in the ruining of it) If only the Indians and Pakistani’s remember their friendship (I know there have been many horrible things along the way such as Muslims attacking Indian cities and killing everybody in the ancient Mhugal days–or before) but everyone should remember that despite their differences, Muslims and Hindus once chose to work together and acomplished the impossible. The Young Indian hackers and Young Pakistani hackers are so intelligent and their peers whom specify in other areas are extremely skilled as well. Now more than ever, India and Pakistan need to shed the old, oppressive caste system. The only solution is to work together. The did it before and the impossible was attained. If they work together again, I think the world will be seeing a new 1st world India and Pakistan very soon. That would be really great and i’m sure all our ancestors who died for peace for their children would be very proud. Please don’t let them have died for nothing. They sacrificed themselves so that India and Pakistan could have peace, not wage war upon themselves!Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Xianity. Islam, Marxism & Capitalism cannot be compared to native organic faiths with spirituality like Sanatan Dharma & Its Panths like colloquial Hinduism (which is at surface more Boudh & Jain). Jain. Boudh, Sikh and eastern Taoism, Shintoism, Confucianism.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Hinduism is becoming native even to Argentina at one end and Mongolia at the other. Rootless parasites who hate everything native and wannabe Anglo, or Mongolian by becoming fake Khans are easy cannon fodder for ISIS who will blow up themselves in metros, crowded markets. If you dont own native brave Rana Pratap as your ancestor then most probably will land in Chicago jail like https://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-releases/2013/tahawwur-rana-sentenced-to-14-years-in-prison-for-supporting-pakistani-terror-group-and-terror-plot-in-denmarkRecommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Hinduism is not native, it is a vague set of ideas/deities imposed by foreign Central Asian invading tribes of Aryans on native Dravidians and oppressing them. How is Hinduism (which didnt even have a name before the British gave it one) becoming ‘native’ to Argentina and Mongolia? Your comments make zero sense and make me doubt your mental capacity. Rana Pratap was a Rajasthani, a people who have been proved by the Harappa DNA Project to be a mostly native Dravdian with a somewhat significant foreign Aryan ancestry, people, does not have any significance to me as a Punjabi. The native adopted oppressive Hinduism of the invader which made them Shudras and adopted the foreign Sanskrit (Indo-Aryan) language and foreign title of ‘Singh’. Moreover Rana Pratap was defeated and the Rajputs of Rajasthan gave away generations and generations of their daughters away to the Mughals in exchange for some land and jewels.Recommend

  • abhi

    So you believe in fanatsies.Recommend

  • abhi

    I don’t think mughals bring any of the so called Mughlai thing with them. India was better off without them. They came naked and looted India.Recommend

  • maynotmatter

    The act of Sati came into being post mughal era, to prevent the women being preyed upon by Turk invaders. Also so did the gunghat system, which was copy cat of burqa system found in Mughal invaders.Recommend

  • Gp65

    Mughal empire did not start with Akbar. It started with Babar who deliberately destroyed hundreds of temples. It isn’t RSS who says this. It is Babar himself who wrote that in Babarnama. He further tried to humilate Hindus by building a mosque on the very site that Hindus had a temple considered to be holy because it was believed to be a birthplace of Lord Rama.Recommend

  • Gp65

    Have you considered the role of Jinnah and the 2 nation theory he pushed stating Hindus and Muslims cannot luve together? His call for direct action wherein thousands were killed? The hatred that resulted in a million people being killed at partition? Do you know that 51% of Karachi’s population was Hindus as per 1941 census and they were driven out against their will even though Sind was nit even partitioned?do you think any of that had something to do with fanning a distrust between Hindus and Muslims? Recommend

  • gp65

    Untouchability was not part of religion but certainly was a terrible cultural abberation which no reasonable Hindu was defend. It is unlawful in independent India. Those who used to be considered untouchables are called Dalit i.e. Disadvantaged and benefit from affirmative action in terms if reservation in specialized subsidize government colleges as well as government employment.
    The notion that a Dalit child can never succeed just needs one example to disprove. But there has been a book written documenting success of 15 Dalit millionaires. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-05-06/news/49661411_1_dalit-indian-chamber-board-exams-dalit-businessmen
    Recently Modi was a keynote speaker at Dalit Chamber of Industry and Commerce. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/narendra-modi-tells-dalit-entrepreneurs-this-is-aap-ki-sarkar/article8041349.ece

    Bab Ambedkar who was in a Dalit family is the architect of the Indian constitution.Recommend

  • Gp65

    Please research why the Hindukush mountain range is so named.Recommend

  • Simla

    A little reading of Anthropology would have told you that any civilization from arid regions can never be better than that of fertile plains. In addition, your comments show your knowledge of India was gained through Pakistani text books. Please search internet before posting comments.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    How is Hinduism becoming ‘native’ to Argentina and Mongolia. Your comments are incoherent and do not make any sense at all. Rana Pratap was a Rajasthani and Rajasthanis are proved to be a mostly Dravdian but with significant foreign Aryan ancestry, by the Harappa DNA Project. He does not have any significance to me, as a Punjabi. Also, Rana Pratap lost and the Rajputs of Rajasthan gave away generation after generation of their daughters away to the Mughals in exchange for some land and jewels. What a legacy. Recommend

  • Kamrul Miah

    Hinduism isn’t really “native” to the subcontinent either. If you look at genetic studies, the majority of the subcontinent is a mixture of two distinct clades, the Ancestral North Indian [ANI] and Ancestral South Indian [ASI]:
    ⊗https://hms.harvard.edu/news/genetics-proves-indian-population-mixture-8-8-13

    ⏅ANI — Central Asians, Middle Easterners, Caucasians
    ⏅ASI — indigenous subcontinentals, related most closely to Jarawa people of the Andaman Islands

    The breakdown of these mixtures go along caste and geographic lines, with North-Western and “upper-caste” being more ANI, and Southern and “lower-caste” being more ASI heavy.

    What this shows is that those Indo-Aryans who introduced their foreign philosophies and social systems into the subcontinent, produced this particular pattern of distribution of their genetic input too ⇛ they came into the subcontinent from West Asia, travelling firstly through the North-Western Indian corridor, leaving their imprint most heavily amongst those locals. Which is why “Caucasian” types are found more heavily in North-Western India and Pakistan than the rest of the subcontinent. They also attempted to cement their lineage at the summit of subcontinental society, effectively making themselves the “upper-castes”.

    Most obviously, this can be seen with regards to the geographical dual-split in the languages of the Indian subcontinent ▬ with North India being the home of Indo-European languages and the South being the home of the [older] Dravidian languages.

    It always makes me laugh listening to Indians proudly proclaiming their “indigenous Hindu” heritage when the vast majority of them would be seen as dark-skinned monkeys by their forbears. By all means stick with the philosophies if they are helpful to you personally, but we subcontinentals should be much more careful of trumpeting up foreign ancestry [whether unintentionally or on purpose]; it can end up making you look the part of the fool.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Kshudra, Vaishya, Kshatriya and Bramhan are Varna. Not caste (Portuguese word)! Varna was fluid. In 7th century, EIC babu Macaulay defined so called “untouchable” boy could become one of the greatest Sanskrit dramatist – Name Kalidas. Valmiki was a tribal. Vyas was born to a fisher woman, just like this lady https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbh5-GkGeMM NarSimh (NarSingh) is one of the Vishnu’s Avtar.

    You call yourself as Persian and Aryan and discriminate people based on skin color. You depict Aryan as fair. But Ram was brown and Krishna was dark. Decide quickly if so called Aryan were fair in skin color or not?

    Today you have almost wiped out Hindu-Sikh from Pakistan, but so also your peace, economy has disappeared. India is progressing in spite of Abrahamic religion followers because of its Hindu/Dharmik spirituality and culture.Recommend

  • Rajiv

    you can beat J.K. Rowling in writing fiction.Recommend

  • Rajiv

    Nobody rallied behind Zafar, Indian kings were against him,mostly from Punjab.
    that’s why he lost.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    The caste system has been an integral part of India and ascribing it to the East India Company is just hilarious. There are various references to it in Hindoo scriptures and by historical travelers to India.
    ” A Sudra has no right even to listen to the Veda. Recitation of or listening to this sacred book is exclusively a privilege of the Aryan Hindus. There is provision of severe punishment for a Sudra, in case he dares to enjoy this privilege. If he “overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten lac or tin was to be poured into his mouth; if he repeated recitation of the Vedas, his tongue should be cut; and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces.”
    — [ Tirth ]; cited in [ Stat ]
    I have never called people of dark skin inferior or peope of fair skin in any way superior to dark skinned people because that would be absurd. That is what Hindooism says. Not me.
    In the Ramayana, Ram travels to South India and Lanka where natives are portrayed as black skinned demon monkeys. Even if Vishnu, Shiva etc. existed they were of ‘blue’ skin, probably Martians. Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Fiction? How else would you explain the majority of India speaking Indo-Aryan languages and South Indians speaking languages from a totally different language family, Dravidian languages. There is a lot of similarity between Persian, Sanskrit, Greek, Latin and German. Early Rig Vedic Hinduism was extremely similar to Persian, Greek, Roman and Norse mythology and even modern Hinduism is. The caste system based on skin colour where native dark skinned Dravdians become shudras and invading Aryans become Brahmins is a testamony to that. Go Google the Harappa DNA Project which shows the genetic make up South Asia including Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Nepal etc. which proves the Aryan invasion. A comment below has even listed it. It is widely accepted by scholars all over the world and only denied by Hindootva nationalists. If you have an argument based on scientifc, lingustic and genetic evidence apart from sarcastic comments, I will be pleased to hear it.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Born Kshudra sages wrote many parts of Vedas. 19 women sages also contributed. Koran, Bible and even Das Capita read by unevolved mind is the bane of our times. That is why in olden times emphasis was on reciting and not forming concepts through which try to “understand” It is better to take bath in the sound, in the Naam (literally meant no “I” ) instead of read word… native Shabd has different meaning (Shabd of Guru Granth Sahab)… You are talking to someone who lived and served in Gurudwar for a month.

    Ravana was born Bramhin and much fairer than Rama. Shiva is depiction of Shiva Tatwa / Pure consciousness which is more real than you and me, who appear in flesh and blood in limited time and space. Expansive nature / Tatwa is Vishnu (that occupies everything even our awareness). Blue is expansive sky. Human awareness needs some form to hold on as umbrella in Monsoon. Those depicted forms serve that purpose….otherwise it can go wild because of insecurity underneath…. Our ancestors were wise that is why India and its civilization has survived Greeks, Romans have gone… within 70 yrs Das Capita wale disappeared … next in few decades Islam and Christianity will disappear, mark my words.Recommend

  • BlackHat

    I did not say Mughal empire started with Akbar. I meant to underline the fact that syncretization started with Akbar. His father, Humayun, was short lived and struggled to hold on to the throne all along to leave a legacy.

    I haven’t said a word about Babur. Like you say, his views are on public record. Obviously, he made no effort to create harmony amongst the people of the empire.Recommend

  • BlackHat

    The British East India Company had virtually lost total control of their possessions in 1857. It was only when the kingdom of Punjab came to the aid of the British, that they reversed the tide and Delhi fell.

    Please read about Mangal Pandey, Nana Sahib, Rani Laxmi Bai, Tantya Tope, Veer Kunwar Singh just to name non-Muslim rulers. They all rose against the British under the name of the Mughal emperor.

    Hindus and Muslims at that time in history, did not view each other like India and Pakistan today. That happened after the British figured out how to create a rift between various communities.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    I don’t need to know who am I from Macaulay or white man from Harvard or wanna be Bedouin or more Anglo than Anglo Paki. Aryan is a bunkum created by newly rich (because of loot from enslaved colonies) Europeans whose native roots were cut due to Romanization/Xianization, had to recreate history and justification for enslaving natives of distant land. What I see around and how in last 40 years American white and back James and Janes have reformed tells me more about me and my roots. Today American towns boast that they have more Yoga Studios than McDonalds, new year is welcomed with midnight Yoga class. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4odZU6GY-cc&t=3h45m

    If you are interested in discussing genetics debunking of Aryan Invasion Theory then do it here https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6848&p=2000271&hilit=AIT+genetic#p2000271Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Discuss Aryan Invasion fake Theory here https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6848&p=2000271&hilit=AIT+genetic#p2000271

    BriShits formed a city from 5 burroughs around native Indian Manhatten and named it New York because they had York in their old land. Can you find any where in west Asia Kashi, Haridwar, SriNagar, Pushpapur (Peshawar), LaxmanPur (Lucknow)?

    Indians went central and West Asia to save the people there and for trade. Refugees from those land such as Persians, Jews, Yezdis and many.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4odZU6GY-cc&t=5h5mRecommend

  • Jatt Sher

    How is it a ‘fantasy’ when I have given scientifc, linguistic, historic and genetical proof for it? Or do you think logic and science both are fantasies?Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Why are you giving him links to Hindootva forums when he has given scientific proof to you here? There is no need for exact similarity of Indo-Aryan names in Central Asia. Aryan invasion has been proven countless time genetically as well as linguistically. The extreme lexical similarity in Indo-European languages has already proven it. Asking for exact similarity of names shows your ignorance about linguistics and history. Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    I challenge you to give me solid scientifc, genetic, historic or linguistic proof for the supposed ‘lie’ of Aryan or the more appropriate term (due to Nazism) Indo-European invasion of India, like I and Kamrul Miah have given you. Only then can this debate go on. Otherwise it is pointless to argue.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    Why wanna be Bedouin or Turki like you want to argue with the native? I realized who Indians are when I landed in USA in 1985, esp when I entered in Bell Labs. I realized we were fooled by Macaulay’s and his proxies ConAngrezis. In fundamental research in Bell Labs (Comp Sc,, Math, Physics, Chemistry) I found no Muslim, no Arab, no Greek or Roman, 37% were Hindus, 20% Chinese and rest Europeans mostly east Europeans and disproportionately Jewish. There are only few civilizations – Indian, Chinese and Africans. Rest are derivatives of them. It is Hindusthan so naturally you need to listen to arguments of so called Hindutwa guys, and not of some Macaulay or Bedouini.Recommend

  • abhi

    You haven’t given any scientific proof what so ever. Aryan theory is imagination of colonialist mindset.Recommend

  • abhi

    It will be better to spend time in thinking why majority of europeans speak so called indo-aryan languages and pride themself in calling aryan while they don’t even know the meaning of it.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    You cannot argue because you simply do not have an argument based on facts and science. I never claimed to be a Bedouin or a Turk, however you keep repeating that. Giving a totally unrelated and irrelevant incident here just goes on to prove that you dont have any legitimate argument. These ‘Anglos’ you hate are the ones who allowed the Indians to get jobs and work under them in Bell Labs and you to live in the USA.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=0

    Go to this genealogical study by an American institue, the Harappa DNA Project, see the proof. Refer to my earlier reply Rajiv above and Kamrul Miah’s comment below, you will find ample scientifc, genetic, historic and linguistic proof.Recommend

  • Salim Alvi

    What do you mean by “Allowed?” Even in 1980s American universities and isntitutions could not sustain themselves without Indian (and Chinese to some extent) Scientists, Engineers and Physicians. You Pakis (fake field marshal Ayub) told Secretary Dulles in 1957 that evey Pakistani is American soldier.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    Please see my above reply to Rajiv, and Kamrul Miah’s comments right below. I think that is ample evidence, (linguistic, genetic, cultural and historical) for the Aryan or more correctly (due to Nazism who made erroneously made it synonymous with Nordic) Indo-European invasion of India.

    Your above comment about Europeans speaking ‘Indo-Aryan’ languages is hilarious at the same type being incorrect. Europe has about three major language families all descendants of the greater Indo-European language family of which Indo-Aryan is a part. Also Iranians and their language is also descending from Indo-European language, infact Indo-Aryan and Iranian have the same sub-language family, Indo-Iranian from which Indo-Aryan diverged at about 2000 BC (in line with Aryan invasion). Why do all South Indians speak languages of the Dravidian family (isolated language group not related to any other).

    The research and proof is not only linguistic but genetic as well as historic (Hindu scriptures) in nature. Recommend

  • abhi

    Instead of providing some dubious link have a look at this link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia) genetically there is no major difference between north and south india. This whole aryan theory is bogus. The linguistic categories do not make much sense and have no scientific basis at all. The europe and central asia do not have any trace of old civilization as Indus valley civilization. They have cooked up the whole story just show their dominance.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    You talk a lot about being native and remembering your roots and all that but are living in the US, working for those ‘Anglos’ you so hate. You talk about Bell Labs and being ‘proficient’ in science yet discard all the credible, very easily verifiable genetic, historic and linguistic proof of the Indo-European or Aryan invasion of India that I have given to you. You are a confused soul indeed.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    The link that you have given is of a non-existent wikipedia article. Language families do not make sense? Linguistics are a very well established branch of study, languages just did not pop out of thin air. You seem to have a very primitive view of the world. Your claim is hilarious and you are just embarassing yourself here. Why dont you take one step further and call genealogy and genetics ‘dubious’ and a British lie. You know you want to, and it would agree with your Hindootva ideology.

    https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Welcome_files/2013_AJHG_Priya_India_Date.pdf

    The link I gave to you was that of a large scale genealogical study by a reputed American institute, however since you do not seem to pleased with it here is another, this study is a Harvard genealogical study and pretty much has the same results, with major admixture happening between two distinct gene groups in about 4000-500 BC. One, (ANI) is related to Europeans, Central Asian and Iranians while the other (ASI) is not related to any outside the sub-continent. The ANI peaks in Pakistan and the North-Western parts of India, while ASI is found mostly in North, Center and South India (peaking in the south). All this is in line with the Indo-European or Aryan invasion. The detailed breakdowns you can see in Kamrul Miah’s comment above.
    Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    I am not sure why the British would ‘cook up’ the story to show their dominance. That does not even make sense. Also, coming back to
    your comment about linguistics indeed it was first hypothesised by a British scholar after finding vast lexicial and grammatical similarities between Sanskrit, Greek and Latin, upto finding the exact same words in them. This sort of similarity is not found in say Sanskrit or Arabic or Sanskrit or Chinese despite Arabia and China being much closer to India than Greece or Rome. You can compare the near identical words in Indo-European languages here
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language

    Secondly, Hinduism in it’s early form and in its present form as well is extremely similar to Greek, Roman, Norse and especially Persian mytholgy. Indra and Mithra are gods worshipped both by the Persians and Hindus. The earliest text of Hinduism, the Rig Veda was formed in Punjab circa 1500 BC and had many references to Persian mythology however no references to the caste system but later as the Indo-Europeans or Aryans moved into the Ganges Plain the major text become formed there such as Mahabaratha and Ramayana. All this is in line with the Aryan invasion and caste references began in these texts. From the two genealogical studies I have posted all the lower castes have more South Indian Dravidian genes while upper castes have more Iranic North Indian genes.Recommend

  • abhi

    So here is the catch. While Greek, Roman and Indian mythology and languages have many things in common it is really difficult to prove that it all really started from one single point. While most of the europeans now follow the arabic mythology, doesn’t mean that all european are descendend of arabs. you can always question while most of the europeans are christians and very small amount of christians can be found around jerusalam, does it mean that Christ was born somewhere nea Rome?Recommend

  • abhi

    i don’t know why the link did not work earlier. trying it again https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_AsiaRecommend

  • Jatt Sher

    This article does not negate what I am saying and just goes on to prove the different genetics of the subcontinent.Recommend

  • Jatt Sher

    The fact of the matter is that we know how Christianity spread through Europe and was adopted by the Roman Empire through historical evidence.

    The high amount of similarity and exact sameness of words of the Persian, Sanskrit, Germanic, Latin and Greek worss going several thousands of years and heavy similarity in mythology especially in Persian and Hindu mythology upto worshipping the exact same gods (Indra and Mithra) should go on to prove that. Languages alone should prove that.

    You have not replied to the genetic and historic evidence I have given you, dont know why. When you have genealogical studies showing you that which are in line with historical migration dates and linguistic evidence, the proof becomes concrete. You have not come up with any scientific or historic proof to refute it.Recommend

  • http://www.mintageworld.com/note Avantika Prabhu

    This is an interesting topic to write on. I am sure many would be looking for these special insights about the history of Mughals!Recommend

  • http://www.mintageworld.com/note Avantika Prabhu

    Wow, these are some unknown facts about Mughal history. Thanks a lot for sharing. I was reading about Mughal coinage on websites like mintage world and found your article very useful!Recommend