Pakistan, not a home for the children of war?

Published: February 26, 2015
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A then and now image of Sharbat BIbi published in National Geographic in 2002

A then and now image of Sharbat BIbi published in National Geographic in 2002 An image of Sharbat Bibi holding the cover she was featured in June 1985. PHOTO: STEVE MCCURRY

Having worked in newsrooms for nearly three years, I find it increasingly difficult to ignore a certain self-congratulatory attitude among Pakistani journalists. Every now and then, a chief justice takes notice of a rape story and our inboxes are flooded with emails of colleagues congratulating the hard working reporter who broke the story.

Once, we even did a feature on how our story helped a rape victim get justice. It was so smug, it set off a round of emails critiquing such editorial decisions and such a feature thankfully never appeared again. Don’t get me wrong, it’s crucial that good journalism be recognised, for it connects us to a broader issue. Each news story on rape points to a pervasive culture and the comments underneath offer us a glimpse into societal attitudes about gender and sexuality. If by merely reporting it, someone helps a victim get justice, he/she should be appreciated.

But then there are stories like that of Sharbat Bibi’s, McCurry’s Afghan girl. Bibi became a recognised face world-over when National Geographic photographer Steve McCurry captured her portrait at the Nasir Bagh Refugee Camp in 1984. When he found her again 17-years-later, he offered us a look into the life she had lived in Afghanistan and Pakistan during a tumultuous phase in both nations’ history. She is not a rape victim. But when she hit the headlines recently – with TV and newspaper reporters all clamouring to claim credit for breaking the news that she was living on a CNIC issued to her “in violation of rules” – very few remembered that she is a victim of war.

By gleefully pointing at her “illegal” status in Pakistan and bunching her name with statistics of thousands of people who use the same illegal method to obtain CNICs, Pakistani journalists turned her ID card photo into a portrait of our anti-immigrant attitude.

Indeed, she is no different from the millions who were uprooted from their homes back in 1980s. Their experiences form a narrative that should have, by now, been embedded into the discourse of the war – a war shared by people of both Afghanistan and Pakistan. In National Geographic’s Afghan GirlA Life Revealedit was told,

“[Her husband] lives in Peshawar… and works in a bakery. Her asthma, which cannot tolerate the heat and pollution of Peshawar in summer, limits her time in the city and with her husband to the winter. The rest of the year she lives in the mountains.”

When she applied for a Pakistani identity card, her form stated that she was a resident of Nothia Qadeem in Peshawar.

Bibi is among the many children who grew up to know two homes. War made it so. Her story is not that uncommon for a refugee. So what purpose did the news story on Bibi’s CNIC “issued in violation of rules” serve – besides a fight between media houses about who broke it first?

It uncovered NADRA’s negligence (wait, that still merits as news these days?), it got four officials suspended (surprise, surprise) and the ID cards issued to her and some men who probably are not her sons were cancelled. It told us that the famed Afghan Girl is no different from a petty Pashtun immigrant – you know, the one who is always up to something illegal.

It also hinted at the alarming attitude towards Afghan refugees after the attack on APS in Peshawar on December 16. The UNHCR and the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa Commissionerate for Afghan Refugees say 19,000 Afghans returned home in 2013 and 4,800 refugees were repatriated in 2014. UNHCR further says that nine times as many Afghan refugees repatriated from Pakistan in January 2015 than in December 2014.

I remember struggling to keep count of reports of Afghan refugees being detained and sent off to “undisclosed locations” in days following the announcement of the National Action Plan. I, therefore, stand with the Human Rights Watch when it speaks against forceful return of refugees from Pakistan. The government must remember its obligation to protect all Afghans, including those not registered as refugees.

A leading media organisation says it believes that,

“Repatriation should be voluntary — keeping in mind that without peace in war-torn Afghanistan, the refugees may not want to return.”

Further, it says better border management is needed because,

“People have been known to take money offered by the UN, leave for Afghanistan and soon find their way back to Pakistan. Additionally, there has been no coherent refugee policy at the national level, which is hampering efforts to effectively address the problem.”

The first place for policymakers to start, in my humble opinion, would be to understand that the “problem” runs deeper than border management and illegal ID cards. It is of a shared history, language and struggle. Together, they form an identity that transcends borders.

It is not hard to guess why they come back. The Afghan economy is in tatters, unemployment is rampant and security has not improved. Meanwhile in Pakistan, refugees now have families, professions and a life rebuilt from scratch.

Aima.Khosa

Aima Khosa

The writer is a senior sub-editor at The Express Tribune and tweets @aimamk

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • Queen

    It is true that Afghan refugees are victims of war and they deserve sympathy but they are not entitled to become Pakistani citizens by using fraudulent documents. The situation in Afghanistan is improving with a new government in power so the Afghan refugees can be repatriated gradually to their homes. There are refugees living in Jordan, Turkey, and various other countries but they are restricted to their refugee camps. We in Pakistan, allowed Afghan refugees to move freely in the country, and as a result, they have obtained Pakistani ID cards and now their third generation in growing up in Pakistan.
    Pakistan is a developing country and we are facing economic and security issues. I know that it is wrong to blame an entire community for the acts committed by few but in the present situation, when Pakistan is facing terrorism and militancy, Afghan refugees are usually the ones found involved in such activities. If Sharbat bibi and others like her are refugees then they should not have had used illegal documents to present themselves as Pakistani. These people carry out terrorist activities which give a bad name to Pakistan.Recommend

  • Fareed Khan Afridi.

    Sharbat Bibi has lived in Pak since 1984. She is an iconic figure the world over.
    If nothing else, she has lived a life of hardship and deprivation. She should be
    given a legal status, whatever that entails.. And be allowed to live in peace.
    Have a feeling, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, England will give be
    glad to have her.Recommend

  • amjad dar

    She should be allowed permanent residency or citizenship however it doesn’t excuse her from buying an ID card by bribing a corrupt official or forging false documents, that is a felony anywhere in the world, in the west you would be in prison for that and the official would too.

    Recommend

  • diamar

    There’s a lot of anti immigrant sentiment growing in Europe, particularly migrants from the Muslim world.Recommend

  • Ali Magsi

    One of my affluent afghan friends in Karachi who grew up here, constantly moans on about how much he hates Pakistan to see our face and says racist things about us, insanely racist, so how are we supposed to be receptive when we ordinary Pakistanis are treated with contempt by them and get looked down upon and get called daalkhors and our women are disrespected in our own country.

    Recommend

  • Maximus Decimus Meridius

    What an imbecilic response by nadra and the higher ups in the government. I can assure you that had she been having the same situation in any European country they would have given her a home and allotted her an income. This is the bane odd Pakistan. The real thief’s name is always hidden. The real terrorist always walks free and the real extemporary always peaches hated while simple folk who have to resort to some minor infraction of the law just to survive are dealt with such heavy handed tactics that Mugabe shudders and shakes.Recommend

  • Gopeet

    This would be from a Bharati viewpoint. Because Sharbat Bibi is
    an icon. Look that up in the dictionary.Recommend

  • Jehanzeb Mahar

    The war in Afghanistan is over. They should be expelled now. They didn’t come here on a work visa. We too have insurgencies and unemployment in our countryRecommend

  • RFD

    “…one of my affluent afghan friends..” And this man is called a friend
    by you? In spite of verbally abusing you and bad mouthing all Pakistanis?Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    If getting IDs illegally is the question, then I can identify and testify plenty of rich and powerful afghans, who did the same and now running businesses in Pakistan and travel on green passports. I am sure no one can still question them as they are rich and influential too. Poor folks like her would face the rage. its rule of the land.Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    Know it ! the educated and exposed people in Kabul have made Pak-bashing as a basic ingredient of their “intellectual” discourses, so any kid who wants to be identified with the so called educated ones, he/she has to resort to racist behavior :)Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    Agreed to most of what you said, but, not only “these” people give bad name to Pk, we have plenty of “wonderful” people in-house to do this job :)Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    what else could that poor soul have done? you are comparing it with the west? Imagine her for a second, wearing her dirty burqa trying to get into a Pakistani immigration/ whatever office to know how the hell can she contest for pk nationality. I am sure you dont want to imagine the later scene of it :sRecommend

  • Sami

    I have not met a single Afghan who have any good feelings about Pakistan. Especially if you are an Urdu speaker, Sindhi or a Punjabi then you are the worst enemy for them. They hate you. They pass racist jokes against you. They make fun of your color. Sorry but atleast in Punjab and Sindh i cannot tolerate them since they live here, eat here and then abuse the locals. They can live in KP but sorry not here.

    Just some days one Racist Pushtoon Afgnan was asking one girl who was a Punjabi that he wants to visit Qilla Rohtas because he wants to see how Northern Punjabis were treated when Pushtoon attacked them. It was a Joke for Afghan Pushtoon but it was disgusting for a Northern Punjabi since they were killed in thousands while fighting to capture Qilla Rohtas from those forces and Northern Punjabis who fought that time were Muslims as well.

    The Pushtoon nationalists love Afghans since they can abuse you on your face. But other than Ethnic nationalists i dont think anyone can stand with them.

    The situation would be different if they would be living here and then acknowledging the locals. But on the contrary they have a praise for India who always close all doors for refugees. So those who dont tolerate you you should not give them the way to your door. Love should be reciprocal. If someone hates you then you cannot always love them in return. If Afghans mend their ways and stop abusing the locals then it is alright. Otherwise sorry they can leave our lands.Recommend

  • Maverick_NZ

    There was no need to give this an ethnic twist, that too a Pashtun one. Pakistani policy has not been to target any ethnic group, thankfully so.Recommend

  • Talha Rizvi

    Agree even people in Peshawar and KPK are tired of them. Since they hate us so much send them to their great friend India. Indians and Afghanis really deserve one another. Indians are constantly saying how Pakistan gains by obtaining aid in the name of Afghanis so let them take these Afghanis.Recommend

  • Bashir Zaman

    ONE STILL HAS TO IMPART WITH “TEA MONEY” TO OBTAIN SERVICES LEGALLY IN PAKISTANRecommend

  • Bashir Zaman

    WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE WELCOMING HEARTS OF PAKISTAN FROM THE DAYS OF OLD?Recommend

  • SM

    Stop this bull – we have hosted 5 million Afghan muhajireen not “refugees” for the past 35 years.Recommend

  • Jimmy

    It is pathetic that so many people on this forum writes to expel all the Afghan refugees where as a large number of Pakistanis want to migrate to other countries and get citizenship by all the unlawful means. What is 3 Million, probably one fifth of Karachi population? A vast majority are decent human beings and we should learn to respect and love fellow human beings. Show some respect for life and mercy to your neighbors. Grant them citizenship, it will be an economical benefit for Pakistan and integrate them in the society. Where is the tradition of honoring your guest has gone that we all boast upon? There are criminals in every ethnicity of world. Give refugees a choice to become Pakistani citizen or leave the country. Most problems will be solved.Recommend

  • Hank

    Gimme a break. Last time I checked, Australians were turning back refugee boats in high seas, even refusing to accommodate as many as 400 refugees who had made a perilous journey spanning many weeks.
    Here we are a poor country with per-capita less than $1,000 hosting 4 million Afghan refugees for decades and being preached on how “not” to treat an illegal alien. Why don’t you just get off your high horse Recommend

  • Saad Ahmed

    Sorry but i have to recall the attention towards the time when muslims of sub-continent boycotted from EIC (East India Company) during the 19th Century and they tried to take refuge in Afghanistan, but they didnt welcomed those people and the journey that those people made went in vain, which resulted in bloodshed and intense rivalries. My point over here is, inducting the refugees from Afghanistan is not only making our system more fragile and prone to terrorism. We have our issues to tackle with!! How about we consider our brother from Balochistan instead of showing our sympathy towards the mean and selfish people of Afghanistan ??Recommend

  • Queen

    We welcomed our Afghan brothers and sisters with open arms and unlike other countries, we allowed these refugees to roam freely in our country. But this welcoming gesture was not reciprocated by Afghans rather they brought with them terrorism and narcotics trade. As Pakistanis, our ‘welcoming hearts’ are responsible to put the security of our country on top of the list.Recommend

  • Queen

    Agree :)Recommend

  • Maximus Decimus Meridius

    Read my comment history. I am against refugees staying in Pakistan. Then read my comment. I am commenting on a single case. Individuals can be treated differently. UK did allow malala to stay right? Different attitude due to extremely different situationRecommend

  • Chinmaya Chidakash

    Those of you criticising the girl…or the immigrants overall…Have you ever seen the situations of those people..?….have you ever been in a situation where all your fundamental rights are just taken away….there is no humanity let alone human rights….In this situation a human lives by “its” instinct of survival…ever meet a child of war ask her how she percieves this world….countries,nationality,borders means nothing to her….just dont comment by knowing about this in this digital sphere….its a real cruel act….we are humans…understand humanity.Recommend

  • Sami

    Well this animosity is not new. Most people do not know that Rohtas fort was built in Jhelum to crush the Muslim tribes of Northern India ( Specifically tribes from Kashmir and Punjab ) that were against the rule of foreigners on their land. Thankfully they captured that fort in less than 10 years time.. Sher Shah Suri ordered a Hindu to built that fort so that Muslims of Northern Punjab could be crushed by the incoming forces.
    So the Muslim brotherhood died that day when Rohtas Fort foundations were put there. Most historians neglect this but this is a very important point in history.Recommend

  • Karachiwala

    Dude, you are talking about scenerio in Pakistan. I met a Taxi driver in Tulsa, Oklahoma. As soon as knew that i am from Pakistan, he started blaming all world problems on Pakistan…and claimed that Afghan problems started by Pakistan etc etc.. I tried to Argue, but thought its gonna be a huge waste of time.
    Cut my ride short.Recommend

  • Bashir Zaman

    Yes, our leader ship have introduced NAP, and we need to be vigilant however not at the expense of making scapegoats of our guests ; the free flow of peoples at the border is also a challenge.
    The Afghan Government needs to start welcoming its citizens back home, so they can get on with their nation building and we can get on with ours after the adventurism of the Americans and NATO.
    NB; one is also aware of the lack of appreciation from the Afghani leadership.Recommend

  • Prashant

    “These people carry out terrorist activities which give a bad name to Pakistan.”

    The Pakistanis who crossed your eastern borders to kill innocents in India, did they not give a bad name to Pakistan? Pakistan is infamous for being a state sponsor of terrorist activities and if you think getting rid of Afghans would help you get rid of this reputation, it is a theory which only a few Pakistanis may believe in.

    How can you be so judgemental of Afghans when your own country has been an active supporter of terrorism across borders?Recommend

  • Prashant

    “But this welcoming gesture was not reciprocated by Afghans rather they brought with them terrorism and narcotics trade.”

    The state agencies of Pakistan did not learn terrorism from the Afghans rather they taught them.

    When the Taliban was ruling Afghanistan, their most important means of revenue was narcotics and despite that Pakistan was one of the very few countries to acknowledge this brutal regime, you wanted an Afghanistan with narcotics so that the Taliban could fund its evil activities but expect the same evil to not come to Pakistan.

    Naseerullah Babar once claimed he was the father of Taliban, it is the same Taliban which was so brutal to the Afghans that many of them went homeless and stateless for which the credit goes to Pakistan.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/101748/naseerullah-babar-passes-away/

    You cannot help a man and claim to be his saviour when he was hurt in the first place for your acts.Recommend

  • FND

    We need to send all these refugees to Hindustaniland.
    let them live there with their benefactors.Recommend

  • Queen

    Like many other countries, we too committed certain mistakes in the past which we are trying to rectify in the present situation.Recommend

  • Queen

    Agreed.Recommend

  • Queen

    You are saying that I am being ‘judgmental’ of Afghans when your entire comment indicates your judgmental views about Pakistan. Your view regarding ‘Pakistanis who cross eastern borders to kill innocent Indians’ is amusing because I wonder if it is true that Indian security forces do not have the capability to prevent infiltration in their areas? Getting ‘rid’ of Afghans has never been the issue, the issue is about sending Afghan refugees back to their home country because whether you like it not Pakistan or any other host country cannot continue to host refugees forever. Regarding Pakistan’s reputation, we are taking steps to mend the situation and the repatriation of Afghan refugees is one of the many efforts being made in this regard. It is a difficult task especially when your neighbor is trying to stab you every time, but we are an alive nation and although it might take some time but we will improve our country’s image in the long run. BTW, I wonder if India, which has made investments in Afghanistan, will be willing to welcome a small group of Afghan refugees in near future?Recommend

  • Nouman Ahmed

    No, believe me no one gives bribe to get a valid CNIC.Recommend

  • Nouman Ahmed

    Her life of hardship and deprivation does not justify her illegal acts.Recommend

  • Hypocrisy?

    “many of them went homeless and stateless for which the credit goes to Pakistan.”
    This started with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which India covertly supported. Thus India and Russian is also a culprit in the mess. You are trying to blame Pakistan for the cold war? What rubbish.

    As said before this does not negate everything Pakistan has done for the refugees. You will defend illegal Afghans in Pakistan but not Bangladeshis in India? What kind of hypocrisy is this?Recommend

  • Prashant

    “This started with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which India covertly supported. Thus India and Russian is also a culprit in the mess. You are trying to blame Pakistan for the cold war? What rubbish.”

    Why don’t you read the comment properly and then respond? Taliban were not a creation of US, they were created by Pakistan and Pakistanis themselves accept it, your establishment still banks on them. You want the Afghans out from Pakistan but Taliban back in Kabul, now that is hypocrisy.

    “You will defend illegal Afghans in Pakistan but not Bangladeshis in India?”

    It is Pakistan’s choice whether the want Afghans as refugees or not, I only comment when I see Afghans being blamed for terrorism by a country which has used terror as state policy and still is fighting terror selectively.

    Also, please understand the difference between refugees and illegal immigrants and you would know why there is no comparison between the Afghans and Bangladeshis.

    We supported millions of Bangladeshis across the religious divide when a certain Army was on a marauding spree pre 1971 in what was then East Pakistan.Recommend

  • Prashant

    “Your view regarding ‘Pakistanis who cross eastern borders to kill innocent Indians’ is amusing because I wonder if it is true that Indian security forces do not have the capability to prevent infiltration in their areas? ”

    Your amusement greatly disappoints human beings across the civilised world, are you not the one who was gloating the fact that Indian forces took time in neutralising the blood suckers in Mumbai? When you are being attacked relentlessly, you cannot defend yourself each time, my question is why does your country harbour people who attack innocents in my country.

    “It is a difficult task especially when your neighbor is trying to stab you every time”

    Don’t accuse us of being back stabbers just because we do not believe in your idea of what India’s geographical boundaries are, can you mention the war the two countries have fought and was initiated by India. if you have the right to kill innocents in India, India reserves the right to give it back in its own defence and if you call that back stabbing, you need to understand the days of pummelling Indians into submission are long gone.Recommend

  • Hypocrisy?

    “This started with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which ”
    I spoke of when there was a refugee crisis, not about the Taliban. You need to read my comments. The Taliban were also part of the Mujaheddin once and the Mujaheddin was made up of Afghan refugees forced by the (Indian-supported) Soviet Afghan government to flee. Yet you will never raise your voice against them. Hypocrisy and blame Pakistan for everything from you as usual

    “see Afghans being blamed for terrorism”
    It is undeniable that a large number of them do participate in the drug trade (AFG is the worlds largest producer of Opium) and some are Taliban.

    “country which has used terror as state policy”
    Yes, I’m sure you think the storming of the Golden temple was a peaceful anti-terror operation. India has many skeletons in its closet too. We shall bring these up too then.

    “no comparison between the Afghans and Bangladeshis.”
    They are both people who have left their homes and cross into another country. Technically the Afghans are illegal immigrants too.

    “You want the Afghans out from Pakistan but Taliban back in Kabul”
    This is what the Afghans and US want, not only us. Not Taliban in power but a peace deal with them.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31637648
    If you reject this then you are the one holding peace back.

    “still is fighting terror selectively”
    Do you have any recent evidence? We have launched an operation which has displaced even the Haqqanis, not our fault if you close your eyes to these developments. The reason there have been attacks in Pak is a response for the Operation as the groups have themselves admitted.

    “We supported millions of Bangladeshis”
    And we supported and still support millions of Afghans, yet you deny it? Credit yourself with supporting Bangladeshis but condemn Pakistan for sheltering Afghans.

    Why this hypocrisy? You really do have a grudge with Pakistan and view everything from your narrow terror-centered perspective.Recommend

  • Hypocrisy?

    ” you need to understand the days of pummelling Indians into submission are long gone.”
    Talk about a persecution complex…

    You will cry over Indians dead at the hands of Pakistani militants years ago but will ignore when Bodoland terrorists that killed hundreds in Assam very recently.

    My name was chosen especially in response to you and it stands just as strongly as my first comment.Recommend

  • Hypocrisy?

    “This started with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which ”
    I spoke of when there was a refugee crisis, not about the Taliban. It is you who need to read my comments. The Taliban were also part of the Mujaheddin once and the Mujaheddin was made up of Afghan refugees forced by the (Indian-supported) Soviet Afghan government to flee. Yet you will never raise your voice against them.

    You are right that soley blaming Afghanistan is wrong but so is soley blaming Pakistan like you do. The US, Saudis had a role in it too (see pic) and this would never have happened if the (Indian supported) Soviet invasion hadn’t occurred, Hypocrisy and blame Pakistan for everything from you as usual.

    “see Afghans being blamed for terrorism”
    It is undeniable that a large number of them do participate in the drug trade (AFG is the worlds largest producer of Opium) and some are Taliban supporters.

    “country which has used terror as state policy”
    Yes, I’m sure you think the storming of the Golden temple was a peaceful anti-terror operation. India has many skeletons in its closet too. We shall bring these up too then. Let the past die.

    “no comparison between the Afghans and Bangladeshis.”
    They are both people who have left their homes and cross into another country. Technically the Afghans are illegal immigrants too.

    “You want the Afghans out from Pakistan but Taliban back in Kabul”
    This is what the Afghans and US want, not only us. Not Taliban in power but a peace deal with them.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
    If you reject this then you are the one holding peace back.

    “still is fighting terror selectively”
    Do you have any recent evidence? We have launched an operation which has displaced even the Haqqanis, not our fault if you close your eyes to these developments. The reason there have been attacks in Pak is a response for the Operation as the groups have themselves admitted.

    “We supported millions of Bangladeshis”
    And we supported and still support millions of Afghans, yet you deny it? Credit yourself with supporting Bangladeshis but condemn Pakistan for sheltering Afghans.

    (ET please publish)Recommend

  • patriot

    Well stop playing an innocent Indian ,talking about terrorism who was behind the so called mukti bahani in 1971 ,who is supporting miscreants in Blochistan ,who is funding so called TTP and their activities in Pakistan incollabration with israelis ,as you stated that Pakistan is behind cross border terrorism then we’re not alone in it both countries are doing it on reciprocal basis so please stop this propaganda ,it’s an old Indian tect of doing evil and blaming others for their deeds Recommend

  • Queen

    I can ask the same question: Why does your country supports militants in Afghanistan and Balochistan who carry out attacks in my country?

    You are right, being a sovereign country, India reserves the right to take action in its defense. Similarly, Pakistan is also a sovereign country and you cannot expect us to remain silent when we see Indian aggression in the border areas. If Pakistan is trying to address its internal issues including terrorism, then India should act like a responsible neighbor and should try to support the efforts rather than initiating attacks in Pakistani border areas in order to put pressure on Pakistan. India should understand Pakistan is a reality and it cannot intimidate us like it tried to do in 1965. What about my question regarding India welcoming Afghan refugees?Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    “Taliban were not a creation of US ”

    First thing, why do you jump into everything you are not concerned with? smarty pants!

    Secondly, Its just like VW starts disowning a car which is pretty much their model and created by them somewhere in 1970s in Germany but now it is owned by some hipster in Mumbai and he has colorfully repainted and re-branded it.

    Sweet heart..The creator will remain the same, no matter how big logic you pull out of your venomous self.

    You think Taliban came down to the earth all of the sudden when Pakistani agencies pulled some strings connected to their jihadi supply up in heaven? Seriously man ! why don’t you read something for real? They are and were the same Mujahidin factions and individuals regrouped, re-branded and sweet coated with some new additions.

    Now go eat some edli or dosa for energy, I love your food by the way.Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    LoLs, Reading your comments and knowing and working with lots of Indians personally for years, It looks like you are “India” presented in Bollywood and they are the real “India”. I wonder if you spare enough time to correct a few things in India too

    You may impress a few here and there, but sweet heart..we..we both know each other..don’t we? :pRecommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    Sweet heart, all the pro and anti emigrants, are somehow, supporting her by asking for her residency rights :) rest assured, we are here to speak of that too :)Recommend

  • SPMCpk.com (Services, Product

    It is a shame that despite our hospitality to Afghans, they hate us so much yet consume our resources like parasites. Maybe it is time that we should socially boycott them and persuade them to return to Afghanistan.
    Tufail
    Recommend

  • Prashant

    Why make an ad hominem comment rather than responding to the comment posted by me?Recommend

  • Prashant

    “Secondly, Its just like VW starts disowning a car which is pretty much their model and created by them somewhere in 1970s in Germany but now it is owned by some hipster in Mumbai and he has colorfully repainted and re-branded it.”

    Some also repaint stuff made in red to green and name them after Afghan invaders.

    “Sweet heart..The creator will remain the same, no matter how big logic you pull out of your venomous self.”

    read this:

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1163376

    http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhp7YtHElM

    “They are and were the same Mujahidin factions and individuals regrouped, re-branded and sweet coated with some new additions.”

    Exactly, now tell me who brought them together?

    “Now go eat some edli or dosa for energy, I love your food by the way.”

    Next time, make it “idli” and not “edli”.Recommend

  • Prashant

    “What about my question regarding India welcoming Afghan refugees?”

    You won’t let Indian goods travel through Pakistan to Afghanistan but want the Indians to take Afghans as refugees, don’t you think the country which seeks strategic depth in Afghanistan has a moral obligation to support the Afghan refugees, why limit your moral obligations to only parts of India which you wish to make your own?

    FYI.. we have over 50000 refugees from Afghanistan in India as of now though much lesser than what you have but we hosted 10 million East Pakistanis as refugees in 1971 when your army was on rampage there.

    Also, I do not have an issue if Pakistan wants to get rid of the Afghan refugees and neither does it matter what I say for a sovereign country which Pakistan is, my issue is Pakistanis calling Afghans terrorists and drug pedlers.

    “If Pakistan is trying to address its internal issues including terrorism, then India should act like a responsible neighbor and should try to support the efforts…”

    Your support to India to deal with its enemies cost India thousands of innocent lives, it has been India’s battle all along against Pakistan sponsored terrorists, Pakistan needs to fight its own.

    “India should understand Pakistan is a reality and it cannot intimidate us like it tried to do in 1965.”

    One of our former prime ministers while being in power went to Minar-E-Pakistan, what else do you want? Do you want India to stop defending itself and slice itself and gift a part of itself to Pakistan?Recommend

  • Prashant

    “Talk about a persecution complex…”

    If losing a war to China in 1962 and celebrating that day every year as a victory day is how an Indian can avoid persecution complex, I would rather want to face the facts to ensure our next generations have a much better and stronger nation.

    “You will cry over Indians dead at the hands of Pakistani militants years ago but will ignore when Bodoland terrorists that killed hundreds in Assam very recently.

    Have you ever heard of people blaming Pakistan when the Maoists kill innocent Indians, what makes you think I would have a soft corner for those Indians fighting India? We are fighting those who fight against us, whether they are Indians or Pakistanis, we do not make distinction between good terrorism and bad terrorism because it simply does not exist for a common Indian.

    Where do you think Kasab came from, where does Hafiz Saeed live, where did Omar Saeed Sheikh and Maulana Masood go after they were set free by India in exchange of innocent lives? Are you so naive to think that these people do not have Indian blood on their hands?

    “My name was chosen especially in response to you and it stands just as strongly as my first comment.”

    Congratulations.Recommend

  • Prashant

    Who is stopping you from continuing on this path? Who is being a cry baby here? We have been absorbing your attacks for around three decades now and India still stands united, would you want to continue this for another three decades, clearly the tables have turned.Recommend

  • Queen

    Pakistan does not allow India to trade to Afghanistan via Pakistan because there are high chances that the Indian goods (which are cheaper than Pakistani goods) meant for Afghanistan will enter into Pakistani markets ( despite of effective monitoring )and this will affect Pakistan’s market stability. Pakistan has been fulfilling its ‘moral obligation’ toward Afghan refugees by giving them refuge in Pakistani territories since 1980s. We have been living with the Afghans, like I said, since 1980s, and we have seen how they have inculcated drugs and weapon culture in our society. I have said in my earlier comment and will reiterate that it is wrong to blame the entire community for the acts committed by few but in the present situation, we are tying to put our house in order and the repatriation of Afghan refugees is one such step which needs to be taken in this regard. I asked you the question about Afghan refugees because I believe that instead of criticizing Pakistan, India, which has economic interest in Afghanistan and it enjoyed great relations with Karzai Government, should invite Afghan refugees to live in its territories. Pakistan is making efforts to address its internal issues and Indian aggression in the border areas will not be feasible for both Pakistan and India in the present situation. And yes, if you ask any Pakistani, he/she will tell you that we deeply respect Mr Atal Bihari Vajpayee for his efforts to mend ties between the two countries. ET Kindly publish.Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    Last thing first , come on – you cant hold me in throat for misspelling a delicacy, despite of the fact that I still praise it :)

    Secondly, Whats you point any way? do you want to prove that ISI reassembled Taliban? is that all? lols, so who is denying it?

    The debate started about the creator, which you said “Talibans were not created by the US” and I said, that they are the same people created, funded and trained by the US with the help of “others” and Pk in the cold war- sweet heart you cant single out ISI for whatever mess happened. Dont tell me that all other nasty agency, including RAW are cleanest people ever existed. Come out of denial please and behave like an intelligent man, which you apparently look like one.

    p.s. I insist, nothing can beat the crunch of Dosa and Sambhaar.Recommend

  • Hypocrisy?

    I never said people like Kasab didn’t have blood on their hands, simply that your voices of outrage against other atrocities (like in Assam) is quite small. It has been around six years since the Mumbai attacks. I would say that they are not much of a threat to India (compared to Maoists and Tribals) as things stand. Indians usually bring it up without reason after which Pakistan brings up Samjhota express or Kashmir atrocities (in the 90’s) and we can all argue until the sun goes down. It really is pointless…Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    cos I want your brain to rest for a while :)Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    the kid is lost..:pRecommend

  • Prashant

    “It has been around six years since the Mumbai attacks. I would say that they are not much of a threat to India (compared to Maoists and Tribals) as things stand.”

    So, you want the Indians to forget Mumbai attacks since it has been six years? will you forget the Peshawar massacre in six years?

    How about taking action against people like Hafiz Saeed and Maulana Masood rather than telling Indians that they are not a threat to India. If India ignores Maoists and the threat posed by them, it would be doing so at its own peril but who gave the state agencies of Pakistan the right to bleed India?

    “Indians usually bring it up without reason after which Pakistan brings up Samjhota express or Kashmir atrocities (in the 90’s) and we can all argue until the sun goes down. It really is pointless…”

    Samjhota express- Did you tell the Indian investigating agencies about Col Purohit or did you get to know it from India? Recommend

  • Prashant

    When the Soviet Union was defeated in Afghanistan, the job was done and the US left, why did Pakistan have to put in place Taliban in power in Afghanistan, it is not the Indians who coined the term “strategic depth”, didn’t your country use Afghanistan as a base to train and launch terrorists into India especially Kashmir?

    Today Maulana Fazlullah is an enemy of Pakistan, the man who owes his allegiance to Mullah Omar and Mullah Omar is being protected by Pakistan. How can Mullah Omar be your friend and Maulana Fazlullah your enemy?

    It is the Pakistani obsession of having control over Afghanistan and bleeding India which makes Pakistan fight the war on terror selectively.Recommend

  • Hypocrisy?

    “So, you want the Indians to forget Mumbai attacks since it has been six years?”
    It may seem heartless but in some ways yes…You will find Americans silently mourning for 9/11 but not calling them for action against the perpetrators today. They are more focused on present threats like ISIS.

    “Pakistan the right to bleed India?”
    You quoted Musharraf above who admitted to this but he also spoke of India supporting Baloch separatists. You must also agree to this then and if so why?

    If you justify by saying Pakistan started it first (in Kashmir) then Pakistan can say Afghanistan interfered in its country before (Durand line) giving it a right to retaliate and thus you have no right to criticize it without appearing a hypocrite?Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    I had a little doubt that you are well read man, which is cleared now.

    If you get into the subject a little unbiased, and I repeat, with no biases and google scholarships, you will learn that things are much more interesting, disturbing, devastating. I have lived the first hand victim’s life right on the borders and have witness the realities, which are far beyond the so called “facts” you Sir, have. Unlike you, who wants everyone else to believe that India is all roses and flowers and as if you have not a single one left at your side who can counterpart Zaid Hamid or Hameed gul, I have been bluntly criticizing Pakistan and its mistakes, but not for the same reason as yours. Although I know very well why they had to end up with those mistakes.

    “When the Soviet Union was defeated in Afghanistan, the job was done and the US left, why did Pakistan have to put in place Taliban in power in Afghanistan”

    Are you by any chance, sane? job was done? This is not your gaming console which you will switch off when tired. It was a whole generation of fighters prepared with the major sponsorship of the US, It was a whole generation of devastated people and a whole generation of bloody games played at their soil. American people are ashamed of doing what their govts have done, but you may not even speak of it because you might be eyeing on a green card to improve your dowry rates. Is it so? do I know a bit too much about you? my dear Indian fellow :)

    “Control over Afghanistan? ” Its called safeguarding national interest, which even the smallest weakest country does. Control is something different.

    p.s. I wish I had this conversation a part of my paid job, as yours :sRecommend

  • Prashant

    “I have been bluntly criticizing Pakistan and its mistakes, but not for the same reason as yours. Although I know very well why they had to end up with those mistakes.”

    So do I, the difference is I do not end up empathising with Indian state for its wrong policies whether in Punjab/ Kashmir or Sri Lanka.

    “Unlike you, who wants everyone else to believe that India is all roses and flowers and as if you have not a single one left at your side who can counterpart Zaid Hamid or Hameed gul”

    That is your assumption of my beliefs.

    job was done?”

    Why did the US, Pakistan and the Saudis brought the Muslim youth from all across the world, was it not to fight the Soviet’s? So, yes the job was done. I am talking about the aftermath and how Pakistan used Afghanistan.

    “Is it so? do I know a bit too much about you? my dear Indian fellow :)”

    When you do not agree with a man/ is not able to convince the other with your logic, just accuse him of so and so, Good Job.

    “”Control over Afghanistan? ” Its called safeguarding national interest, which even the smallest weakest country does.”

    Now you do not seem to read and listen to your own experts on this.

    “p.s. I wish I had this conversation a part of my paid job, as yours :s”

    Enjoy your life with your deep pockets mate, I am fine with what I am earning.Recommend

  • Hamidah Fawad

    @Asy ma wail Well said.Recommend

  • Hamidah Fawad

    And do you know where Kasab was for a long time before the Mumbai attack. He was not in Pakistan. He was not being trained in Pakistan. Please brush up your knoweldge. He was much closer to your home.Recommend

  • Prashant

    “Please brush up your knoweldge.”

    Yes he fell from heavens into Nepal and RAW brought him from there to stage manage the 26/11 attacks. What you call “brushing up” is nothing but asking others to brainwash themselves with the same conspiracy theories that you live with.

    Here is what the then interior minister of Pakistan had said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAJFi6AG9ewRecommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    Thanks, but I think he didn’t like it much :)Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    “So do I, the difference is I do not end up empathising with
    Indian state for its wrong policies whether in Punjab/ Kashmir or Sri Lanka”

    Good. Keep it up, if you want to be identified as a little sane. As far as empathizing is concerned, then should I say that you are assuming?

    “Why did the US, Pakistan and the Saudis brought the Muslim
    youth from all across the world, was it not to fight the Soviet’s? So, yes the job was done. I am talking about the aftermath and how Pakistan used Afghanistan.”

    Again, it’s not your gaming console which you will switch off
    when you get tired. Real life is much different than what you see in the Bollywood flicks.

    “When you do not agree with a man/ is not able to convince the other with your logic, just accuse him of so and so, Good Job.”

    Did I? Sorry If I have offended you for a most common practice for which the closest of my Indian friends in the West and Middle East receive a direct bash from me. They cannot defend the cursed practice as their brains work enough to get a PhD but stop working when it’s time to put a price tag on their foreheads. You dare proving me wrong and
    I will take you to their door steps.

    “Now you do not seem to read and listen to your own experts on this.”

    When you are part of the story, then you don’t need any expert to tell you what happened in the story. Read again, you are not speaking to the some sophisticated metropolitan Pakistani, rather it’s a rigid tribal, all the way from those cursed hills, at your disposal, Sir!Recommend

  • Prashant

    “Good. Keep it up, if you want to be identified as a little sane. As far as empathizing is concerned, then should I say that you are assuming?”

    Thank you for your advise Mr Sane.

    “Real life is much different than what you see in the Bollywood flicks.”

    Yeah..everytime I decide to comment on a blog, I make sure I have seen a bollywood movie before that.

    “Read again, you are not speaking to the some sophisticated metropolitan Pakistani, rather it’s a rigid tribal, all the way from those cursed hills, at your disposal, Sir!”

    That’s hardly a response. Most of what you say is either giving yourself too much of credit or accusing the others of something which may or may not be true.

    I have hardly seen a coherent response from you.Recommend

  • Prashant

    “You really do have a grudge with Pakistan and view everything from your narrow terror-centered perspective.”

    Yes, I would take much lesser interest in Pakistan the day I get to know that the likes of Hafiz Saeed have been permanently abandoned by Pakistan.Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    Telling credentials is not equal to giving self credits. Learn it.

    I did not accuse someone throughout. The only thing I started debating with you is that you gave a wrong statement “Americans didn’t create Talibans” and the stupid ever “job done” statement. I hope you will give it a sincere thought instead of building your argument bag against Pakistan only.

    I will be packing my bags soon to get some “Writing a coherent response” certificates from my cranky neighbor :)Recommend

  • Prashant

    “Telling credentials is not equal to giving self credits. Learn it.”

    Well, a person comments on an issue and you comment on the person himself, you must know the credentials of every person on this planet.

    I stick to my statement though, look around and you would know how many around the world believe the same and you would know who is building an illogical argument.

    You do not need to learn anything from your neighbour and neither do you have to accept everything your neighbour tells you, time will tell who took the right path and who did not.Recommend

  • Asy ma wail !

    I wasnt speaking of your credentials, I was telling you mine :)

    If by everyone else in the world you mean you, your few online emo friends, a few ill informed neighbors from the street you live in, your milk-man and the barber you go to- then of course, I am contradicting the worlds opinion, otherwise, the people having some real hold on the subject of Afghanistan would tell you something different than what is popular in your world I just defined :) –

    Secondly, make no mistakes – I am not taking Pakistan out of the blame, I am just telling you the root cause, as well as, there was a whole lot of countries playing there and in the last..Learn to condemn the US for being the real creator of the greater mess, of which Taliban happened to be a small portion.

    Yes, Lets agree on the “Time will tell” thing :)Recommend