Is it time for gay rights in Pakistan?

Published: June 25, 2011

We have shunned millions of our brothers and sisters and they have given up all hope of finding support from us. PHOTO: AFP

Earlier this month, for the first time in its history, the United Nations (UN) passed a resolution to protect and uphold gay rights universally. The US Department of State successfully lobbied to bring under the banner of universal declaration of human rights, equal rights for lesbians, gays, and transgender people. The resolution was passed with 23 affirmations against 19 disavowals.

While some of us celebrate this momentous turn in attitudes, it is sobering to note that it took the UN this long to recognise the oppressive violence faced by homosexuals everybody and to finally declare that yes, gays are human beings as well. We have got to somewhere, I suppose.

Excerpts from some of the speeches on the floor were posted on the United Nations blog including the following statement from Pakistan:

“Introducing new rights “may misinterpret the Universal Declaration of Human Rights…these attempts jeopardize the entire human rights framework,” and that “while considering the issue of human rights many things must be kept in mind… these things [gay rights] have nothing to do with fundamental human rights.”

Similar repudiations citing religion, cultural and sociological arguments were made by Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Ghana, Nigeria, Mauritania, Uganda and several other Organisation for the Islamic Conference (OIC) countries.

Whether Pakistanis like it or not, the resolution is binding on Pakistan as a member of the United Nations. Unfortunately, as the status quo goes, there is no enforcement mechanism to make violation of rights punishable. As hopeful as the global affirmation may seem, the situation in Pakistan is quite abysmal.

A gay friend lamented:

“The very term gay rights is an oxymoron here. There is no such thing. We have no rights in Pakistan.”

Where does one even begin the debate in Pakistan?

How do you get past the literal interpretation of religious texts that leave no room for such a debate?

Islam if read as a monolith, stuck in time and fixed in space, will not allow equal rights to homosexuals.

To change opinions in Pakistan, however, we need to be able to find solutions within the faith. Rebuttals and recantations will not win hearts and minds, we need to fight this battle employing the language that is heard and understood.

There are several Muslim scholars who maintain accepting views on homosexuality, the discussions are available for anyone to peruse.

In Indonesia during the Conference of Religions and Peace in 2008 it was concluded that homosexuals and homosexuality are natural and created by God, thus permissible within Islam. Siti Musdah Mulia cited al-Hujurat (49:3) from the Quran and said that one of the blessings for human beings was that all men and women are equal, regardless of ethnicity, wealth, social positions or even sexual orientation. She said:

“There is no difference between lesbians and non-lesbians. In the eyes of God, people are valued based on their piety. And talking about piety is God’s prerogative to judge.”

There are countless practicing Muslims who have managed to reconcile their sexual orientation and faith and find no reason to focus on conflict within the two. Some maintain blogs to document their every day experience while others prefer to challenge the plethora of preconceived notions through academic writing.

Trouble is that such voices are few and far between. You don’t hear them because they are afraid to speak up. They are afraid for their life and safety of their loved ones if they come out.

They are unwilling to be subjected to a lifetime of shame and ridicule.

We have shunned millions of our brothers and sisters and they have given up all hope of finding support from us.

UN resolutions are nice enough but they are a result of a decades-long struggle for equality, fairness and justice. It did not happen overnight. A million lives had to be sacrificed for a million more to speak up.

Speaking up won’t be enough anymore. If we don’t yell, loudly and proudly to make ourselves heard, I’m afraid the battle will already be lost.

Rabayl

Rabayl

The author wishes to remain anonymous

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • owais khan

    yes,it is the time for gay rights in pakistan.The amount of abuse,ridicule and humiliation that is heaped on the gay people in the ISLAMIC republic of pakistan is sickening.for some reasons muslims seem to believe that abusing those different will lead them to heaven.homophobia inspired by religion is one of the biggest problems facing pakistan.

    i don’t quite understand it though,because the same maulvis heaping abuse on gays are the ones raping small boys in their madrassas.i’ve heard islamic fascists calling for the death of lesbians and gays , i guess anything which is different upsets these islamic savages.it’s time islamic homophobia was ended.Recommend

  • sars

    i guess once weve completed the good work on womens, minorities, the poor and disabled then we’ll work on this too.Dont hold your breath!!Recommend

  • jawed khalid

    well done baylinveil, you aren’t afraid to bring up a sensitive issue,a sensitive one at least for the religious fanatics.gays are a reality and have always been one,pretension by the islamic extremists otherwise is just self deluding.people are born gays and lesbians,homosexuality is not a disease as the fundoos like to believe,just as allah creates hetorosexuals so he creates homosexuals,the islamic barbarians feeling threatened by the gay community should migrate to their beloved saudia or iran.

    gays are human beings equal to men in every way,your bigotry and hate won’t change reality.the ulema spouting homophobia from their masjids and madrassas should also explain why mullahs rape young boys so frequently ??? if homosexuality is un-islamic then why are religious people so fond of it????Recommend

  • samin bawany

    To the mullahs:

    We are here,we are queer,get used to it.Recommend

  • http://www.myasinmasood.blogspot.com Muhammad Yasin

    Let’s welcome a new breed of depression to our society… and destroy one thing that has been holding us so far… our family structure…. and not an being an individualistic society…!!! Recommend

  • sameer

    in pakistan and india,we cant hav gays!!

    Men or boy hardly have access to women and girls before marriage!

    Who on earth wants to becom gay :)!!

    I heard arab are more likely to become gaysRecommend

  • shaista farooq

    as with a lot of other things in our country, discrimination against gays has religious sanction,infact the maulvis promote eagerly vile homophobia.The islamic fanatics are the biggest problem pakistan faces today,they want to impose their medieval,rabid,bigoted view of society on all the rest of us.anyone who doesn’t conform to their rigid view of society is immediately labelled a ‘wajibulqatal’. This islamic homophobia only damages the muslims ourselves,it doesn’t change the gays.

    The extremist muslims should realise that homosexuality is as normal as heterosexuality,if the gays and lesbians have to accept the straight people ,it is time the straight ones returned the favour.Recommend

  • shah g

    HOMOSEXUALS AND HOMOSEXUALITY WAS CREATED BY GOD… Com on, this is just a crap, u must b kidding me… Whoever has said dis, needs to update his knowledge abt islam or read authentic commentary of Quran… Nw alot people here will target me for ma views, being against the rights of homos, bt v better realize, dat dere z a hell of a diff between western culture n civilization plus 4 Gods sake, dnt misinterpret the verse of Quran infavr of homos, if u no abt hstry, people were cursed wid stones due to homosexuality… U dnt really need to copy the west in every aspect of life…pathetic…Recommend

  • fahad saeed

    how many gays have comitted suicide bombings,how many gays have stoned women to death,how many gays have beheaded people??? all these things have been done by islamic fascists.the gays and lesbians are much better then the mullah brigade.the maulvis have brought nothing but death and destruction to this world.the gays on the other hand are the most creative people in any society,be it in song,dance,arts or culture.

    The world owes a lot to the gay community.it is high time that the gays be started treated as normal and equal pakistanis.Recommend

  • owais khan

    @shah g:

    come out of the cave you live in.homosexuality was created by allah just as heterosexuality was created.it is as normal as being straight is.just because religion has corrupted your mind to only hate and ridicule doesn’t make it right.gays are as normal as the sun coming up in the morning.Recommend

  • zain bilwany

    @Muhammad Yasin:

    homosexuality doesn’t destroy your precious family structure.having gay parents is just as normal as having two straight parents, the religious savages really need to get their minds out of the dark ages.gays and lesbians are perfectly normal people.Recommend

  • nayeem

    @samin bawany:
    thats john stewart.Recommend

  • Sohaib

    Read the chapters about the people of Lot (Hazrat loot a.s.) and about the cities of Amorah and Siddom in the Quran and you will realise where Islam stand on Homosexuality. Those cities were sandblasted literally off the face of the earth and there was acidic rain so intense that the remnants of those cities were drowned in the water. That water is called Ded Sea today and those cities still lie beneath that sea.

    Trying to find ways to accept gays through islam will not work. if you are gay or want to be one, then first find out if you have some mental illness. if not then you have some other form of problem that you will need to find out.

    Liberals like you want to impress upon others their interpretations inspired by what is going on the west and along the way curse islam to be the hurdle towards achieving that goal. your article is just another liberal rant and nothing else.

    Allah says in Quran that He created human bengs in pairs – explicitly men and women. Sorry to say, but your gays and their rights have been put in the dust bin. Recommend

  • 001

    Omg , as if there arent any other issues , for God’s sake , Plz come after 100 years when people are not hungry and have access to electricity, security, gas, and water . And ET your Comments are moderated , how can you let someone post an obnoxious video about Mohammad (SAW) as Sameer has? Please remove itRecommend

  • faraz

    Here thousands have died over minor sectarian differences, and you are talking of gay rights! The governor got killed for meeting a poor lady who was imprisoned for blashphemy, and people showered petals on the murderer. Which pakistan are you talking about?Recommend

  • CB Guy

    Like it or not, homosexuality is a crime, just like eating pig or drinking alcohol or having sex outside marriage. Islam does not discriminate on the basis of color, language, race or sex but this is a new twisted, shameless edition by pseudo scholars that sexual orientation is not a matter of concern.

    Islam very clearly calls it a crime and thats it. God created the ability to kill but it does not meant that He wanted us to use it too. some rule applies here. i am no Mulla and i despise a lot of them but this is the fact and we can only run away from it, we can not change it. Recommend

  • Gay

    I’ll be honest here and hope that the mods let it fly.

    I’m bi sexual. Though I know its not right. Just like eating faeces is not right.

    But hey scat turns on some folks. For me its a super ewweeww!

    So you may ask, why I’m Bi sexual, yet believe its not right?

    The answer is simple. It’s the buzz!!!Recommend

  • shah g

    @ owais
    bro i have very humble request 2 u, to plz have a lil luk at da islamis history n u ll get to know islams perception abt homosexuality…
    Havent u read abt da people of hazrat lut, nt i, infact Quran cites the story of people of lut, destroyed by wrath of God, as dey ngaged in lustful acts between men… So i wud suggest u to plz carru out a lil research before concluding anythg… Recommend

  • http://www.onewayparadigm.blogspot.com Ahmer

    I think Pakistan as a whole has bigger problems to deal with then gay rights, I mean come on people this ain’t that big of a problem. Think about solving all the major problems and then come to these small problems that you can always sort out later.Recommend

  • AA

    Oh dear oh dear…let not this society destroy by this phenomena. You havent mention the whole surah of Quran. surah loot in which this act is condemned. Dear Rabayl, get something valueable to post if you are so desparate for publicity. Recommend

  • shah g

    @ owais
    n if i have stll nt made ma pnt clear, dn lemme elaborate it a bit more, 4m medical pnt view, mst sexually transmitted diseases like gonorrhoea, HIV n many oda such diseases have highest incidence n homos…
    Nw lemme again cite da Quran: we have created everything in pairs (male n females) right 4m Adam n Eve to the smallest insects…
    Regards…Recommend

  • your conscience

    who cares whether someone is gay, bi, transgender, straight, Islamic, non Islamic, etc. what matters is that we treat all humans equally. their gender/religion/race etc are their private issues. who are we to cast judgment on someone based on these irrelevant issues. whether Islam permits homosexuality or not is not the issue. how we treat our fellow human beings is the issue. to that end the term gay rights is wrongly used by the author, the term to be used here is human rights. gays are people too.Recommend

  • Ali

    @owais khan:
    “homosexuality was created by allah”
    So was pork.
    So was paedophilia.Recommend

  • sam

    why r we discussing that type of things when we hav read in Quran that this is sin , crime and we also knw about the people of Hazrat Loot (a.s). But those people whom dnt know Islam are much attracted towards these sins. And im not mulah, But mulahs are far better than those gays right supporters. My request plz dnt follow west. Learn something frm Quran.Recommend

  • Kash

    “Is it time for gay rights in Pakistan?”

    Answer: “No!”Recommend

  • Sonia

    Agreed Shah g!!!!

    Mr Owais- watch ur words- RELIGION DOESNOT CORRUPT MINDS!!!!! it gives u the knowledge and opens ur mind. freedom doesnot mean a FREE HAND to do WHATEVER u want!!!! Opening one’s mind tells u ur BOUNDARIES!!!!

    Somehow all your answers are in the creation of the universe and unfortunately for some in religion- which they HATE to see- just because they think on the lines of MULLAHS- not on the lines of the GREAT BOOK (which they would hardly refer)

    If Allah wanted to create homosexuality he didnot need to create two separate genders- one was enuff and wud have sufficed. Hazrat Adam was enufff. He didnot need Bibi Hawwa.
    Allah created 2 geders because heterosexuality was meant for PROCREATION and not for RECREATION purposes.

    The media or should i say the western ppl – who have now had to make a UN resolution first started off with a minor industry and then making a huge profit earning and easy business out of it. Then came this old-turning-brand-new concept (since Prophet Lut’s nation was destroyed by it- we being muslims are already on the brink if it because of other great deeds- if this is to be added- then I hardly see Pakistan surviving) into the media market and onto the screens and ppl enjoyed it soooo much that the numbers of homosexuals soared. It is a biological fact that once you see something that gives you pleasure you like to see and do it again and again- psychologically human beings can ADAPT their sexual behaviours also as they have done. Although they can go back to being NORMAL with help coz they are MADE normal. They dont because habit dont go away. Just like smoking or drugs!!!

    So please people before writhing on sensitive issues – just dont hold the West in awe and just start writing without investigating specially plz dont quote the Quran- they lady u mentioned isnot even authentic, you didnot mention that there were others in the conference who CONDEMNED it (including the Deputy chairman of Indonesia Ulema Council):)- WE arenot westerners and WE have a DIFFERENT background- and once ppl like us go there they will not even ACCEPT you without changing everything about you. They will change the PAKISTAN in you!!:) Recommend

  • Closeted Gay

    Whether we like it or not, we have a considerable population of homosexuals living among us. They lead low, closeted, underground lives. Most of them may never open-up to their parents or society, and only a few brave ones take up the challenge to live their identity openly. Homosexuality is not an inherited phenomenon, and to us homosexuals, straight heterosexual sex is just as disgusting as gay sex is to straight people. Personally, I don’t care about gay rights or whatever, since I don’t want everyone on the street to know whom I am going to bed with, but I cannot withstand homophobic attitudes too. Opening up to gay rights would only make our society more tolerant. It would not make the straight people anymore gay. So relax!Recommend

  • hedgefunder

    Are you serious???
    This country does not give basic rights to its religious Minorities, let alone Gay people!!!!
    Get real, this Pakistan you are talking about, where even basic Human Rights are hard to come by!!!!
    The only rights people have here is with MONEY!!!!!Recommend

  • shah g

    a lil more 4 owais….
    In forensic medicine n pshychiatry, homosexuality is considered as pervesion n any kind os perversion qualifies for pshycological disease…
    N bro if u bel n family, dn families are produced from man n women.. god creayed Adam n Eve, nt Adam n Steve.. I hope i have made ma point very clear to those who r gays r supporters of gays, r have desire 2 become 1… Recommend

  • Syed Nadir El-Edroos

    Why is everyone so interested in other peoples sex life? Surely, if its a sin then God will judge people, why is everyone passing judgement on other peoples business? Recommend

  • KolachiMom

    For all those who are so anti-gay….. Not your body, not your problem. If you’re so fixated on what someone else is doing with their body, then dude, you have issues. Your belief system tells you not to do it? Then YOU don’t do it. And, I agree… it’s HUMAN RIGHTS, period.Recommend

  • http://wasiddiqui.com Wajeeha Asrar Siddiqui

    Though I do not support this opinion at all but leaving the comment to let everyone know that Surah Hujurat 49:3 does not say any thing like that.

    So, please check yourself in Quran for any Quranic reference.Recommend

  • Sonia

    @Syed Nadir El-Edroos:
    Do u really think it is OTHER people’s business????
    a right of this nature being established in Pakistan would mean an open invitation to all gays- as if open fornication wasnot enough!!!????

    Would you allow your family members to be a part of this? If not then it surely isnot OTHER people’s business!!!!

    Very bold step by the writer- but a steeped (down-sloped) one!!!!Recommend

  • Sonia

    @KolachiMom:
    It will be interesting to know the BELIEF SYSTEM of the gays- anyone plz?
    maybe the anti-gays can better understand them.

    wht religion are they usually from?
    what do they perceive the religious books as saying about their practice?
    do they feel guilty?
    are they influenced by the media?
    wht provoked them to become so?Recommend

  • http://bakedsunshine.wordpress.com/ Shumaila

    @ Syed Nadir – that’s just the problem right.

    According to Islamic laws, what a person does in bed with another person, even if its two mutually consenting adults, can make him or her a criminal. In a place that has laws punishing people for zina and has a law as barbaric as stoning for adultery, what more can be said? No wonder gays have no rights.

    So. Is it time for gay rights in Pakistan? You’ve got to be kidding me :)Recommend

  • Tariq Nawaz

    It’s strictly prohibited in our Religion.Have you read The Holy Quraan ? I live in the West and know the consequences of garbage like this and how western societies are being destroyed by
    lesbianism and gayism.I would appreciate if you would refrain from posting such articles in future.Thanks.Recommend

  • Syed Nadir El-Edroos

    @Sonia: Do you have any idea how many people are LGBT in Pakistan already? Have you seen all the outdoor massages offered in public spaces such as railway stations? Homosexuality is not something that is being copied from the west. It is a physical state that is a natural part of an individual, not something that can be created by offering “legal rights”. What do you mean “open invitaion” to all gays? Open invitation from where?

    As far as would I “allow” my family members, well for one if one of my family members was/is gay, they are not going to stop and ask for my permission to be gay! And they are my family members, so I would love and respect them unconditionally, and that would not depend on their sexual preferences. Recommend

  • Imran Mohammad

    When there are so many other and more compelling issues related to our survival as a nation, whats the point in raising this non-issue? This discussion is emblematic of our problems, we have two extremes, one is radical religious minded people who want to enforce their views by any means and on the other extreme we have so called elite liberal, westernized class who wants to follow west blindly. Why can’t we have a middle course.Recommend

  • Abdul Salam

    I think Pakistan should setup free psycho consultancy service for homosexuals. This is the best and most unique way to address the issue. Recommend

  • 100

    Why do we have to bring religion into everything? That is the problem, everyone thinks they understand and know the Quran better then the rest.
    The minute we bring religion to the table, things get complicated, things go wrong. This is not why we believe and have faith. Islam is suppose to teach us tolerance and help us hope for a better tomorrow.
    For all those above who have shared their feelings of Islam, and what they believe, and what they think is the “right course”, who are you? why should we listen to you? why do you have to share your faith and beliefs with us? I believe in Allah, I have faith in Islam. BUT i do not dictate others how to live their life, what i believe, and the faith i have is between me and Allah. Who are you?
    It doesn’t matter if you are okay with homosexuality, or if you’re not. What does matter is whether you believe, every human being has the right to the basic laws of nature, has the right to be treated fairly no matter where they are from, what religion they practice, what gender they prefer.Recommend

  • pasha ghazal

    i found this article as an eye opener as it revealed the situation of our moral corruption . i donot know how the writer could shake the very basic islamic teachings of islam and say that there is room for gayship in islam ! . in no way islam could allow to practice such abomination.
    God has created every living being in pairs ! now that leaves no space for homosexuality.
    please try to understand that islam is all about sanctity and modesty so dont try to take cover for these kind of acts from islamic rules, it can and should never be legalised,
    mind u that i had been an A and O’ level student myself and m pursuing my PhD abroad.Recommend

  • KK

    for God sake. why are you bringing this issue to be considered. it’s crap. Forget the Qoum-e-Loot?Recommend

  • faizan

    Time for gay rights in Pakistan? Not according to the Pak Ambassador to the UN
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-06-17-united-nations-gay-rights_n.htmRecommend

  • worried

    @ the writer, Why didnt you write a blog when according to a guardian article, pakistan is the 3rd worst place in the world for women.I think Its high time to ask for the rights of women, minorities, children ..and the list goes on.Recommend

  • Sonia

    @Syed Nadir El-Edroos:
    just because something is on the rise doesnot mean it should be LEGALIZED!!!!! so we should also legalize mobile snatching and rape- what say- its also natural and prettty psychologically driven- and on the rise!!!!!!????????????!!:)
    there is no support of such a process of legalization of things in Islam.

    Maybe u r comfortable with a family of homosexuals- but the majority isnot- and just to make a point- we arenot exactly from the 17th century either:)

    @100
    Dear atleast we understand Quran to the extent that we can easily say that GAYS arenot a NORMAL set of people- and have read it and understood that such people dont deserve a right in the society!!!

    And hey no one is asking you to LISTEN to us:)
    btw the SAME Allah that u say is the being Who is going to judge u- has said something- atleast LISTEN TO HIM!!!!!:)Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    Excellent article. I truly admire your courage..

    Now you better run for your life, Rabayl. :pRecommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    Abdus Salam,
    Homosexuality was removed from the list of psychiatric disorder in 1972. There’s no “psychosis” to treat.

    Sorry to disappoint you.Recommend

  • anonymous

    Answer is, NO!!!! Not in our lives!!!Recommend

  • Shahid3

    I live in the West and know the consequences of garbage like this and how western societies are being destroyed by lesbianism and gayism.

    For anyone else living in the West and observing the destruction of countries with multi-trillion dollar economies by “lesbianism and gayism”, it might be a good idea to actually meet some of these people and their relatives and see how the latter came to terms with these “isms” cropping up in the former. A useful, non-threatening forum for people in the West to learn more about realities of the world that are swept under the carpet in Pakistan are organizations like Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) whose meetings are open to all and can be useful for those who know of a gay person among their relatives:

    Your first reaction to learning that your loved one is lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, or questioning can range anywhere from anger to sadness, fear to hurt, confusion to grief, and anywhere and everything in between…

    Recommend

  • TightChuddi

    Haha joke of the year!Recommend

  • Azeem anwer

    @To all gays
    Please do not follow the path of the west but the right path told by God and preached by his last messanger Mohammad (PBUH).

    Homosexuality is forbidden by God and clearly mentioned in Quran at numerous places. God destroyed the people of Hazrat Lut (AS) only because of this sin.

    It is not a matter of being mullah or -non-mullah. It’s an issue of being follower of God or not. I have not used the term Muslim and non-Muslim here as no religon allows this sin.

    “Whether Pakistanis like it or not, the resolution is binding on Pakistan as a member of the United Nations” Nothing can bind us against the laws of God. We Pakistanis are governed by the beautiful laws of our creator. If any worldly law, rule or resolution does not contradict with the supreme laws of God, there is no harm in following them. However in the case of any, contradiction the supreme laws would prevail.

    Besides this, there are numerous other UN resolutions which are nor followed by many nations and the UN has not been able to implement those (e.g. UN resolutions on Kashimir). So do not you worry. God will take care of the UN. Recommend

  • Hussam

    Let me put a comprehensive end to this discussion on this rather idiotic article.

    If Islam were okay with homosexuality, it would allow marriage between two homosexuals. As it is, you’re not allowed to engage in sexual relations with anyone before you’re married. So wouldn’t you say that Islam is NOT okay with homosexuality? Use your common sense woman.
    Aside from this there are many instances mentioned in the Quran (quite specifically the ‘azaab’ on Hazrat Lut’s qaum) that are quite indicative that Islam prohibits homosexuality.

    There are always going to be perverted mullahs reaching their own conclusions about what it is that God really meant for us to do. But I’d say that an overwhelming majority of scholars are in agreement on the stance on homosexuality.
    Now we can come to your other point. Which is gay rights for gay people. What exactly do you mean by that? Do I think they have the right to vote. Yes. Do I think they have the right to make prolific public displays of their homosexuality? No.Recommend

  • Zubair

    Dear All supporters of Guys/ Lesbians, Please answer of this question. Do you believe in Quran? and if yes, tell me any verse supporting guy marriage? But Quran rejects this act in Surah Loot. I am not molvi but this is simple thing to understand for me. Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    What do religious people fear is going to happen if we stop harassing gay people? I’ve been told that God judges each person for his/her own actions. Why don’t you concentrate on your own actions and stop telling others what they can/cannot do, because they might not share your beliefs.Recommend

  • Deen Sheikh

    God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, nor Eve and AnnaRecommend

  • Zahid Qureshi

    If nature wanted some of us to be gay and promiscuous(having many sexual partners) it would not had punished someone indulging in such things with as severe disease as AIDS.
    Homosexuality and Promiscuity is unnatural and punished by nature severely…..

    See the stats of HIV positives in Homosexuals and Promiscuous and if still not convinced go and seek advice from Doctors and they will tell you how wholesome it is for you…

    “Over half (63%) of adult and adolescent males living with an HIV diagnosis in 2008 became infected through male-to-male sexual contact”
    Source : http://www.avert.org/usa-transmission-gender.htm

    For those who don’t want to listen to Mullahs, Mother Nature and Doctors then just imagine how it would sound to your ears when you will hear that one of your brother or loved one is suffering from AIDS ……and one of them is bound to… for sureRecommend

  • Deen Sheikh

    ET shame on u for not publishing my comments on Rabayl Manzoor’s blogs.Recommend

  • Qadeer Ahmed Baloch

    Everything is polar in the universe.. Balanced, Negative, positive, male, female, dark, light, everything has a polarity, even atoms…
    Let us for now put aside religion, morality, ethics and logic and just study homosexuality as an ideal…To me it is just wrong. Religion tells us, it is not just wrong, but downright awry and strictly prohibited by Allah. A crime, punishable by death if witnessed by 4 people…
    What is the sense of announcing and asserting your sexuality if it’s so natural as claimed? Why don’t we have any Heterosexual Pride Day Parades? Homosexuality to me is a very twisted diversion to natural Laws…It is an averse and distorted form of reality, constantly reasserted through Parades and displays of lewd behaviour…

    Now whats in the Quran:
    The Quam of Lut were practicing homosexuality majority-wise. So it was more of a widespread problem, rather than just a few doing it. Furthermore, the punishment is delievered by God. God didn’t ask the Prophet of that era/place to give the punishment.Recommend

  • Mirza

    There is a difference between being homosexual and practicing homosexuality. Homosexuals are human beings and deserve to be treated as equals. I abhor ‘gay’ jokes and the like. In fact, I think that there should be a campaign launched here against prejudice towards sexual orientation.

    What raises a person’s status, in Islam, above another’s is his/her faith. The act of sodomy is forbidden. This happens to be a Muslim majority country, and thus, you will have to accept that gay marriages are never going to be allowed here, just as drinking and pork eating never will. And please don’t try to reinterpret selected Islamic sources to suit your needs, that’s a very low thing to do.Recommend

  • Umair Waheed Sheikh, Khayban e Hafiz,Karachi

    What about rights to Bisexsuals. I have a fiance yet I also fancy a few guys. What category will I come under?Recommend

  • Afsha Saeed Mirza

    The hypocrisy of us Pakistanis is sometimes beyond belief. Most of us would like to be like the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who declared that there are “NO HOMOSEXUALS IN IRAN.”
    Homosexuality has always been a part of Pakistani society from the mountains of Parachinar, in Pakistan’s tribal north or Karachi the social capital. Homosexuality has been a hidden activity for centuries its just not discussed and labelled as such and the sooner we deal with reality the better as a nation we can exist. All religions have been vehemently against it with verses to support their denial and acceptance of it but in reality there are many more abhorrent sins that are committed daily in the name of religion that include rape, sodomy and brutal violence against women, mentally challenged beings and children.
    There are probably more pedophiles who hide under the guise of the religious cloth, ask the young boys in madrassas and they are probably covered by scars of abuse while bending over to be trained.
    A perfect example is the Roman Catholic that is a strong opponent of any homosexual rights but yet share the biggest boy abuse cases by priests and yet the Roman-Vatican has been slow in acceptance that its guardians of religions reign the chambers of pedophiles. In Pakistan there is no data on the abuse by our religious clergy but if such data was available it would send shivers of disbelief and disgust Recommend

  • Bilal

    Rabayl…this was an appalling blog. You should have at least let the Islamic stance out of it, while making your point. It obvious that your knowledge about it is very weak. You cant quote some random bloggers and events, just because they were serving your purpose.Recommend

  • Ali R

    Pakistan being an Islamic country, at least on paper, will never allow this. It has been clearly told to us in the Quran the story of the People of Lot and the punishment they got for homosexuality. It is in the Quran. Open it and read a translation yourself. Who are you all to question the authority of Allah–when He has clearly told us the consequences of homosexuality.
    Homosexuality is a test that is given by Allah to some individuals, if you are able to repress your thoughts and control your actions then you will get a lot more rewards than the suffering you had on Earth!Recommend

  • Jawad

    @owais khan:
    whats islamophobic about being homosexual?
    what does that even mean ? Not any religion in the entire world allows homosexuality. A conference in indonesia doesnt change the stance of Islam on homosexuality. If any of you proves scientifically ( no hypothesis) whether it is natural, I would be enlightenedRecommend

  • Curmudgeon

    Is there is a pun on the word “latest” in the phrase “the latest religion”?Recommend

  • Bewildered

    Gay rights in Pakistan? It is ridiculous. Here are no basic human rights you are talking about gay rights. There are thousands out there who are unmarried and are anxiously looking to continue their generation ahead having a natural sex and you are talking about the gay rights. There may be millions in Pakistan attained the age of 25 and yet waiting for the sex. Talk and think about their rights.Recommend

  • kanza khan

    Homosexuality hasn’t been created by Allah. This argument if were taken to be true then it could be used by rapists,murderers and those suffering from pedophilia too that it was God who put these criminal inclinations in them and they themselves are completely innocent. Allah had thoroughly given His verdict on homosexuality in Qur’an by narrating the story of People of Lot.
    The people suffering from this disease should be treated but this can never be allowed in Pakistan. if anyone has issues then they can leave this country.
    A country that was created in the name of Islam will not have such heinous laws that are in fact a threat to humanity. And as far as the United Nations is concerned, well they could not stop the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, illegal occupation of the state of Israel and never assured the implementation of Kashmir resolution, all they can do is pass Gay rights and other such menacing resolutions since they don’t have the power to do anything else.Recommend

  • WhatsInAName

    All praise belongs to Allah alone. He is your creator, protector and sustainer.

    Do not go against the laws he has created for us. Read in the Quran what happened to the homosexuals of the people of the Lot.You can google it.

    May Allah guide us to the right path.Recommend

  • GMM

    Not only UN claims to protect human rights but also animal rights. Many people are practicing animal rights on the planet and a lot of stuff is available for evidence on the internet. This sort of rights may also be validated and protected globally in near future by the honorable UN. If such kind of resoultion is passed to protect animal rights universally, what will be your comments??Recommend

  • Malay

    Many on this blog has suggested that god has created every living being in pairs (i.e. male and female). If that is true then there should always be equal number of males and females for every species on earth, but we know that’s not true. Recommend

  • Malay

    If god created everything he surely created gays as well.Recommend

  • Faris

    is there something such as an Editorial team at ET? Gays may have rights and may be treated as equals, I have no issues with that – but please don’t distort religion and pass statements such as stuck in time to justify ur irrelevant blog. U r talking about rights, if u have a right to free speech even I have a right to get offended. So I’m using my right to get offended and giving this blog a thumbs down.Recommend

  • Syed Nadir El-Edroos

    @Sonia: Legalize it or not, individual rights can not be taken away because of someones sexual preferences. This notion that legal protection against discrimination for gays and lesbians is equal to the multiplication of gay people is homophobic nonsense. You are born gay, not made into one! Recommend

  • Ali Kazmi

    To a demented collectivist mentality, no time is the “right time” to fight for any kind of rights, be it the rights of women, children, religious minorities or queers, but to a thinking person, every moment is the right time to fight for what’s good because all oppression, be it the oppression of women, Ahmedis, Christians, children, Balochis or queers, stems from the same source: the lust for power. No one has any right to tell anyone how to live so long as the way someone lives isn’t damaging to the person or property of others. You may not approve of a gay man or a gay woman’s “lifestyle”, but you have no right to force them to conform to your idea of how a person should live.Recommend

  • Omar Shahid

    Homosexuality is prohibited in Islam … END OF STORY !!
    And for the ET team, DO NOT PUBLISH BLOGS IN WHICH PEOPLE HAVE INTERPRETED ISLAM TO SUIT THEIR NEEDS !! Recommend

  • http://kmlgl.wordpress.com/ Komal

    Thanks for writing this blog post. Voices like yours are much needed in Pakistan, and if we keep pushing for gay rights, we will create more and more space for gay and lesbian people to live peacefully there.

    I think part of the battle is to help people understand the meaning and significance of homosexuality. It is not just that it is ‘natural’ (or feels natural to those who are homosexual anyway), but that it is also about creating an alternative to a very established type of relationship that is influenced by certain norms of gender (I am referring to heterosexuality here), and is strongly tied in with ideas of appropriate family life, marriage etc. If we understand heterosexuality properly — more honestly, with a willingness to see ways in which it may have become problematic over time, given the patriarchal context in which it has developed and become institutionalize — then we can understand homosexuality as well. But if we insist on thinking in a heterosexist way, homosexuality will always seem like an inexplicable aberration, even if it is one that liberals are happy to defend.Recommend

  • Bahram

    whenever i expect that ive read it all, express blogs can get no worse than this, IAM WRONG AGAIN ! what kind of a pathetic article is this ?
    Its one thing to do it in the shadows, iam shocked at the writers courage to come out and write something like this in Pakistan ! have u no shame ?Recommend

  • meera ghani

    Excellent blog, shame on pakistan for its statement at the UN.Recommend

  • http://kmlgl.wordpress.com/ Komal

    And yes it is definitely time for gay rights in Pakistan. The remark that this is a ‘small issue’ shows how much disregard the people making it have for the lives and happiness of gay and lesbian people in Pakistan. We are talking about people’s lives here, their ability to live without persecution. We do not have to pursue one cause only, and I see no reason why it cannot be that some people pursue the cause of gay rights while others do what is more engaging or seems more urgent to them, not to mention that more than one person can engage in more than one type of activism during their lifetime.

    Gay rights will also significantly help the lot of women in Pakistan. It will make it easier for women to avoid the conventional patriarchal family system, and it will protect the lives and health of lesbians there.Recommend

  • tomt69

    I dont know why are stressing on anti gay laws to be implemented in full force rather than ratify a law that was established by the Victorian era,which considered it a crime.A crime that was intend to discourage Pedofiles and imprison them for their wrong doings,instead the law was twisted into an Islamic law and hence the generation after were forced to believe it was an ultmate sin.if we look at it in the light of religious text it was merely forcing one into sodomy without onsent,whether a child or an adult.They went far in every wrong doings from corruption to theft.The society of Lut was no loving society. neither were they providing gay rights to every citizen.They didnt had Gay Prides and Gay marriages.they simply forced one into doing things as they desired,without the will or the consent of the victim whether it be theft bribe or sex,which eventually led to their ultimate downfall.
    If we look around, we preety much are facing similar situations,A Middleeastern Reigime forcing their belief system,certainly not by preeching but by force,blowing up the educational institutions damaging social infrastructure,terrorising average person in every possible way they can.We witnssed them well enough in the mess that took place in Swat,and we sure are fighting them in other areas of the country.
    so to cut it down to the point back to LGBT rights here.
    Now we look at it with a broader prospect and stick our heads out of the ground,the reality is different.Two adults who wants to love and care for each other and wants the right of the state allow,i personally believe there is no harm in them.
    As for those who fear the family structue is being damaged,well as if we aready have one that is functional in every street of the country,as if women are not beaten and burned in the perfect famlies around.as if children are not abused in the perfect society of ours,as if that mullah that we betrust is bearing the angel wings.
    I wonder how lesbians gets AIDS,but how can they w dont have any in this perfect societies.They are merely sisters who wants to play chamcham.
    And what about the one …born this way…they pump testosterone…but lacks the capability to let it out someway,and who dance at the wedding at the birth of your first born.the transgenderism is never by choice…..but what if they want to marry their loved ones…should they be hanged too,CJ of supreme court was quick to give them rights but i want to know the willingness of the society to provide them with jobs.had any multinational company hired one even at the help desk.had there been a news anchor who is transgender,a weather person even!
    So why this bigotry…why on earth we are quick to establish our perfect views and impose them for mere lack of the heart for acceptance.
    Bigotry is the biggest sin…not homosexuality.God is the best judge…not U,so dont impose what u feel i snot right.
    Middleeastern societies are constipated in their set established rules bestoed by the Wahabi founders.they burned down the foundations of the school of thoughts,Bhasphamised other sects for their practices and beliefs and have not been able to achieve anything excpet the power of oil,even that with the help of USA.Recommend

  • nady

    Is this Islamic Republic of Pakistan ?? i dunt get it why we are discussing Gay issues when we all are clear about this in Islamic views.no fatwa can be issued when Quran is so clear about it and all those mullahs who are doing such shameful act will be answerable at the day of judgement ..can i ask tommorow you all be discussing how good Pork eating is ??Recommend

  • Asif

    Why are we opening the Pandora’s box of trying to reconcile homosexuality with religion anyway? The debate should be about what exactly is so bad about co-existing with homosexuals in the same society?
    I’m not naive, this WILL be a huge thing to swallow for most Pakistanis. I think human-rights advocates should be prepared that Pakistan may never be a society that will celebrate homosexuality (no gay pride parades :/ ). Lets be honest, when was the last time we ever celebrated differences among us without guns? Legislation should just ensure that hate-crimes (fun day out for tableeghi parties) for reasons of sexuality should be punishable. I know, realistically speaking there will be no change any time soon…. But for those of you think really think that change will be brought by debating whether God created gays… Get real.Recommend

  • Shahid3

    btw, one of only 15 foreign recipients of Nishan-e-Pakistan over the last 50 years is Sultan Qaboos of Oman, who is widely considered to be gay. He was married once but the marriage fell apart within months and he never remarried or had any children. What a horror it must be to be forcibly foist marriage on a gay person and their partner, both of whom deserve better (I wonder how those who advocate sweeping this issue under the carpet yet again will feel if they find out after marriage that their partner is incapable of any intimaacy toward them).Recommend

  • Tashfin

    We live in the dark ages of Islam. It’s hard to digest that 21st century Pakistani Muslims are more archaic than Persian and Arab Muslims of the 8th century, but it’s true. Even they celebrated the boy-crazy Abu Nawas as “the greatest poet of Islam” and had open forum debates with the great Arab philosopher of scepticism Al-Maari. The maulvis have raped muslims of their true culture of wisdom and tolerance. Recommend

  • http://www.about.me/frazwahlah Fraz Wahlah

    What a waste of time. This writer and all these other pro-homos would stand up for anything that goes against human nature and our values, traditions and morality. They are the other extreme side of the society with one being the brain dead zombies like taliban and extremist mullahs who just can’t see beyond themselves. I pity them all.Recommend

  • http://ovais-envisage.blogspot.com/ Muhammad Ovais

    The more I read tribune, the more i dont like it anymore! Is there no one in Tribine to regulate what is posted on their website? For God sake people this is not the topic to ne discussed among the youth. This is what our religion has taught us! We live in Islamic Republic of Pakistan, please mind the word Islamic!

    I will agree that Pakistan has much more bigger problems that so called gay rights! and for gay people … please get a life! Try not forgetting your relegion and what Allah has made for us! We should thank Allah for everything! Recommend

  • Asad

    I believe the Quran devotes only a few lines to homosexuality in the story of the people of Lut.
    “And Lot who said to his people: ‘Will you persist in these lewd acts which no other nation has committed before you? You lust after men instead of women. Truly you are a degenerate people.’
    His people’s only answer was, ‘Banish them from your city. They are men who would keep themselves chaste.’ We delivered him and all his kinfolk, except his wife, who stayed behind, and let loose a shower upon them. Consider the fate of the evil doers.”
    The people were not necessarily punished for homosexuality (even though its wrong), but for homosexual extremism: not that they were gay, but that they expelled from the city all those who were straight. Big difference my friend.
    @Shumaila the Quran doesn’t allow the govt to punish what you do in your personal life, only if it becomes public. Hence the four witnesses for crimes of zina to be punished by the govt (i.e only when you take your incorrect personal life into the public sphere, there is no way four witnesses can show up in your bedroom)
    Whatever you think of homosexuality you should treat homosexuals with compassion especially because they face challenges in society that others do not.
    Also for all those who claim the two binaries of Adam and Eve which categories would you say Hijras fall into?Recommend

  • Shahid

    @shah g: Dude, homosexuality is NOT a disease as classified in the DSM IV criteria for psychiatric illnesses and certainly it is not mentioned as a perversion. But there is a reason to it. The reason is, the criteria are made and published in the West, so they can’t obviously classify it as a disease or perversion. The whole Gay and Lesbian rights people will make life hell for them.

    I am not a mullah and don’t wish to be labelled as one of them. In fact, I despise most of them.

    The problem here is that a lot of pseudo-intellectuals here are to trying to justify homosexuality, when in fact it can’t be justified even when you don’t take Islam into consideration. This writer and other pseudo-intellectuals out here are trying to be ‘cool’ or something by trying to justify it.

    Allah created a male and a female for every species. It was meant to be like that. Even scientifically, if you let homosexuals flourish, it would lead to a lot more sexually transmitted diseases. Another thing to consider here is that if you let homosexuals marry, how would children be produced? How will the species continue to grow in the way it is meant to grow and flourish?

    Peace.Recommend

  • Sonia

    @Afsha Saeed Mirza:
    I dont see any HYPOCRISY in the note u wrote???? We have nothing to do with the Romans!
    what mullahs do is wrong and is definitely punishable- but that doesnot make a Law of Allah non-applicable????

    @Syed Nadir El-Edroos:
    U r born normal. Just like u r born without a religion and a mother tongue. U dont have any sexual prefernces when u r born!!! U LEARN everything from ur surroundings that is y twins can be brought up differently in different regions.
    Whoever said u r BORN a gay????? i would really like to know ur source?Recommend

  • Paindu Shurly

    Lady, how about rights for teh poor and teh helpless first?
    You people live in aland where you would not even sit next Recommend

  • ML

    Homosexuality is condemned by Islam. Ofcourse people born that way i.e. eunuchs, transvestites, due to physical malformations should be given rights anywhere. And should serve as a reminder to the whole mankind that God can bring upon such misery on anybody. Homosexuality is supposedly a personal choice. For you to actually defend such a un-Islamic notion is pitiful. It is analogous to all the other atrocious behaviors carried out against women, children and all other minorities in this country. Yes we were astray from our religion being an Islamic country, now gay rights are going to be a cherry on the top of it all.Recommend

  • Paindu Shurly

    How about rights for the poor and the ordinary first?
    In any case, majority of people of Pakistan are conservative &
    muslims whose “book” tells them that homosexuality is an abomination and many a nations have been annihilated for their transgression. Now, you may well be atheist and that is your own business . However think about the tens of millions who disagree with you in principle and
    the only way to convince them is for you remove them from their religious belief.

    So , Lady…………….. I ll repeat again one more time regardless of the religious convictions that first provide rights & justice to every day mazdoor & naukar and the one that cannot read E.T & then perhaps venture into “modernity” if you get my drift!Recommend

  • ali

    @jawed khalid:
    Mr Whatever molvies may like or doing it doesnt make it ligal or good in Islam. If mullahs are doing they will be answerable to their actions. If some one starts liking to sleep with his own mother or sister (God forbade) that wont make it legal. We are muslims and we have to define things in the islamic perspective. It doesn’t make any thing good if few people are liking it. .Recommend

  • Dr Muneeb Shahid

    @fahad saeed:
    Reply to “how many gays have comitted suicide bombings..all these things have been done by islamic fascists”
    You need to get a hike ppl. Islam was brought to this world in the pure form of Quran and Hadith. And regardless of what the whole world wants you to do, you dont have to change your religion and faith.
    Its like today if everyone demands gay rights from muslims, tomorrow they’ll expect you to change the your kalma or namaz; like limit it to only the friday prayers or more appropriately, just the Eidain.
    Even if the world owes alot to the gay community, doesnt mean that we have to accept them. What is wrong, should be labelled as wrong, and what is right is right. Rights are given only to the people who are right, not those who are wrong. Today its gay rights and tomorrow you’ll start talking about rights of the terrorists? Wake up!
    Issues like poverty, illiteracy, child abuse and crime are far more greater than gay rights. These issues have a much greater number of affectees in individual countries than all the gays in our race. Everyone has a right to be different, but not on the expense of our religious, social and moral values. I hope the message has been conveyed.Recommend

  • Fooz

    Lol Gay rights…

    Pakistan needs to eliminate terrorism, corruption etc.. first and then come to weak issues like Gay rights…Recommend

  • Kashif Khan

    We must distinguish between Islam and Muslims. If a Muslim does some thing wrong ( mullahs rape young boys so frequently ???) does not make Islam wrong.

    Islamic teachings are very clear. The author of this blog Ms. Rabyal Manzoor needs to understand Islam before passing on Fatwas.

    Stop imposing western ideaRecommend

  • GMM

    I mean to say human sexual rights with animals and vice versa???Recommend

  • Rusk_Memon

    Seeking for fame baylinveil??? Why do we find it so easy to give away our ignorant views on Islam…. whereas if u r invited to write a scientific article , would u be able to do it without citing proper references..rather than quoting personal views of some unknown scientists???? I advice u to reconsider ur words and read the quran!Recommend

  • Hussam

    There has got to be a line that we as as Muslims need to draw on what should be encouraged and what shouldn’t be.

    Next you’ll have people like Rabayl Manzoor writing blogs on how people who engage in incest do so because they were ‘born’ that way. What utter crap. Wake up people. You don’t have to conform to everything you see on TV or the Internet.Recommend

  • http://lonepkliberal.wordpress.com Loneliberal PK

    Zahid Qureshi:
    “If nature wanted some of us to be gay and promiscuous(having many sexual partners) it would not had punished someone indulging in such things with as severe disease as AIDS”

    If God wanted you to eat sugar, he wouldn’t have punished you with diabetes.

    If God wanted you to eat chicken, he wouldn’t have sent down bird flu.

    If God wanted you to eat fried foods, he wouldn’t have punished you with heart disease.

    If God wanted you to perform hajj, he wouldn’t have punished hajjis with stampedes.

    If God wanted you to breathe, he wouldn’t have punished you with flu and tuberculosis (air-borne diseases)

    Shall I go on?Recommend