Will I get a job if I haven’t graduated from LUMS or LSE?

By Zahra Haroon Published: September 1, 2012

You should be your own reference. Despite the wind blowing against you, make sure you stand your ground and stay strong. DESIGN: ERUM SHAIKH

Call a top-notch organisation enquiring after their recruitment process and they will, more often than not,turn you down saying;

“We only hire LUMS and LSE graduates.”

Today such blatant and disgusting bias is observed in many many multinational organisations across Pakistan. This is an extreme sort of epidemic prevailing in the recruitment process of many organisations.

A reality check must be given here. I feel obliged to inform these ‘guided’ organisations that many brilliant students are studying in universities that are far older than Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS), Institute of Business Administration (IBA) or even Lahore School of Economics (LSE). However, they are discriminated against, regardless of their capabilities due to the university they attended.

I recall one interview in particular, where the gentleman on the other side of the table asked,

“Why did you not choose to go to LSE?”

Here I want to make one thing clear to the readers, that I did end up acquiring admission in LSE but due to personal reasons I opted out of it. I certainly don’t regret my decision and I am proud of being a ‘Ravian’. Anyway, I am definitely not here to advertise my institute so better get back to the point.

I’m not saying that students from LUMS, LSE or IBA are not eligible or deserving; they certainly are. The question that I, and I believe many others, would want to ask prospective employers is, why are candidates from other universities not given an equal chance on the employment front?

A friend of mine from Government College University cleared all stages of the recruitment process of a well-known, reputed multinational company but after the final interview, she received a rejection notification. The feedback given to her was,

“You don’t belong to a reputed business school.”

Yes, I am not joking!

What a shame it is for such reputed organisations to have their standards stuck on such a ridiculous benchmark. Imagine the ideas and creativity they are missing out on by boxing themselves to a strict only-LUMS or only-IBA recruiting policy. Moreover, imagine how damaging this is to the morale of students who have worked so hard only to be turned down due to the school they attended. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Another prevalent professional disease is one called ‘reference-obia’.

I recently received the curriculum vitae of an MBA graduate from one of the more ‘reputed’ business schools. The girl had a 3.8 GPA and was applying for an internship position at a particular organisation. Her class fellows, who had lower GPAs’ got into the same internship programme- but not because of his grades. He had something that requires no ‘reputed’ business school background; he had connections.

It is shattering to observe how MNCs now pander to the demands set by powerful people. Now, those graduates who don’t posses high grades or good business school backgrounds use their contacts or more accurately, their daddy’s contacts to secure the job that a hard-working student has pined for ll his life. The stronger reference wins the position. How unfortunate is it that MNCs – who have the word ‘ethical’ plastered on the front page of their list of goals – indulge in such a lowly act?

Proper recruitment test drives are useless because at the end of the day, the things that really matters to the recruiter is your university’s name and of course, the strength of your reference.

Can you even imagine how severely demotivating this is for students who come from a lowly background but have worked hard throughout school to get a job that they inadvertently, out of no fault of their own, won’t get?

So, to all organisations, it would be much kinder if the students are not degraded, stamped, labelled and punished just because they come from a public institute or a ‘non-reputed’ business school. It would also be nice if you give someone other than the bosses son or daughter a chance, no?

It is my plea to all organisations to make decisions on recruitment wisely and ethically. The person you rejected because he came from a public school with no safarish had a lot more drive and hunger to be a winner than the one who has been fed from a golden spoon all his life.

Think.

Follow Zahra on Twitter @zahraharoon

Zahra Haroon

A business development executive at a software house, Zahra is a complete foodie and loves to cook and eat. She tweets as @zahraharoon twitter.com/zahraharoon

RSS Feed

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

Azeem

Lovely article and very true. ALso even when given an offer such candidates often have to settle for a lower salaryRecommend
Shehryar

Oh come on! The world is fair in the long run. Connections are not required either. I’ve worked in a very good organization in a program that many people aspire to get into. I did not need any connections and I had colleagues from lots of schools. You should build substance instead of wasting time whinning over stuff. Recommend
Nouman Ahmed

This is not discrimintation. It is just that the LUMS and IBA have better educational system and their graduates are definitely brilliant because they are filtered through the finest system. While other institutions are not so good. If they are good then they should appear in rankings. So definitely companies are going to choose the better ones.Recommend
Salman

Welcome to reality!!Recommend
Engineer

Come on!!

Smell the coffee, there are LUMS/IBA graduates working at PKR 20K a month and vying for a 30-40K job.Imagine, LUMS MBAs, who spent a whooping 30K a month!

And there are engineers who start at 60-80K.

Moral: Choose your career path wisely. Daddy’s money is not there to stay!Recommend
oh yeah?

@Nauman, which rankings??? LUMS and IBA don’t make to the list of top 500 universities from any credible international ranking organization; whereas India’s IIT is among top 40 yet they don’t have the kind of arrogance displayed by LUMS/IBA graduates as they care more about excellence rather than pride and arrogance which has been the sole focus of our institutions. Yeah these institutions do rank well in our local ranking bodies which are mainly politically motivated, incompetent and corrupt. The only Pakistani institute to make it to the top 100 list was NUST yet its not that highly ranked locally for its graduates have yet not learnt the art of arrogance and politics that LUMS/IBA have mastered perfectly and thats how they move up the ladder. from my experience in my workplace, these grads show signs of dumbness and are pretty below average.Recommend
Engineer

And hey presto, the organisation I work for is undoubtedly considered one of the country’s most pretigious, and we have more UETians/NUSTians here than GIKIans or private institutions people.

An organisation would spot the talent it needs, fake it on your resume, and still you won’t make it to the final selectee most probably.

Reference, on the other hand, is considered normal and taken positively across the West and US. Wake up and go out your public hostel dorm!

P.S No offence, since I’ve lived in the same crumbling buildings all my 4 years !Recommend
Ali

Totally second your thoughts… i am a UETian, and it’s heart rending to suffer unemployment. It’s all reference game now a days in the top notch organizations. One with number of connections will secure a position, someone else deserves. Nepotism and favoritism must be ended.!!Recommend
Engineer*not

Well the average a lums mba takes is more than 80…you might want to do some research before..Recommend
Engineer*not

Comparing engineers with business grads…apples to oranges !!!Recommend
Sane

@Writer
Little exaggerated. There are many employed nicely who are not from LUMS, LSE or IBA. Talk with statistic and do not quote one or two instances or your personal perception. I myself not from these institutions, but was happy and now happy with my job. I am nicely paid and still good placed in job market.Recommend
Sabih Zafar Ullah

These days, even LSE and LUMS grads are waillayRecommend
Engineer*not

@Engineer:
Well the average a lums mba takes is more than 80…you might want to do some research before..Recommend
zaigham

It is because employers trust more on LUMS, LSE & IBA’s education system and they surely reduce their recruitment n selection costs. Although it’s unfair to shortlist on the basis of institute, we can’t blame private employers for their cost-saving measures. Moreover, reference is not always bad when a required guy comes from a credible source. Not all graduates rely on big daddy’s pocket or connections to achieve success.Recommend
Luminite

Firstly a bit of disclousre. As evident from the moniker, I’m a LUMS graduate. My brother has an MBA from IBA. We are both working for MNCs, and well-settled alhamdolillah.

Now for the shocker. We got our jobs with zero references. Forget a golden spoon, our father couldn’t even afford to send us to public university. We both got scholarships from LUMS/IBA, and in my case worked part-time jobs while in university in order to afford the education. Even after graduation, there was no guaranteed employment. We both spent a considerable time unemployed and then had to work our butts off to prove ourselves and grow professionally.

There is a reason IBA and LUMS grads are so highly sought after, despite being more recent and with a smaller alumni network than other universities. They are both merit-based, uncorrupted, progressive institutions of higher learning, whose degrees can only be earned, and never bought.

As for the point on arrogance, allow me to ask one simple question: How many of the people posting in this thread have given something back to their university? Anyone? See the link below

http://nop.lums.edu.pk/

We Luminites understand that privilege is responsibility. So we have the National Outreach Programme to ensure that intelligent, hardworking pakistani youth can get the best education possible and run the race of their lives, regardless of which family they are born in or how much money they have.

Every year, LUMS spends millions in financial aid for students from less-privileged backgrounds, including full scholarships, to help reduce poverty and ignorance. And when such people graduate from LUMS, they keep giving back to the university to make sure that others are afforded the same opportunity. I know this because I am one of them, and thankful to Allah for it. This is not arrogance.

What’s sad to note is how success is not celebrated but viewed enviously, with suspicion and resentment. Recommend
haha

I’m working for one of the worlds best firms here in Lahore and my boss is from gcu, my companys director is from imperial college Lahore and the lady I’m deporting to is from Punjab university. and I’m from lse! So you see… It’s not reference or their institute that got them here….its their competency, their zeal, and their guts that got them here. And trust me…in good companies…sifarshi people don’t survive long. Recommend
Wahab

totally foolish article! if i own a company, i have every right to hire graduates fro unis i feel actually teach something practical to the students.. Also about the connections thing, a strong reference is preferred all over the world and GPA is not everything that counts. the writer obviously has no knowledge of the corporate world!Recommend
mm

FAST NATIONAL University Islamabad and NUST students are also highly sought after in the job market. Ive had the honour of studying in both :)
But yes companies must judge on individual personality’s and knowledge Recommend
Karim Javed

It’s true that it is happening in current market. Many multinational firms and IT sectors have changed their hiring criteria in which they will only hire graduates and masters from Zebist and IQRA University am talking about Karachi. At once we are forced to think negetive about these universities that they are paying good to these firms to hire their candidates, or there is some lobby taking place in between these universities. I don’t think that building such nice buildings and luxuriuos enviroment will help to promote good education, in promoting good education they also forget that there is a class which called once middle class now who are changing to poor people due to rapid increase of inflation.Recommend
BlackJack

First of all, companies cannot survive with just recruits from premium b-schools, although they often do prefer them for roles with greater responsibility – this is a global truth and has nothing to do with Pakistan. I found the order of events that you describe to be ridiculous, with rejection taking place after the final interview based on the grad school – almost no companies that I know work in such a lop-sided and unproductive manner. If they want to reject you on these grounds, then why not right in the beginning? Further, if you feel your school is not seen to be in the same league as LUMS or IBA then there has to be reason for that – quality of intake (student profile/ experience), quality of faculty (publications/ recognition/ school of origin), industry recognition (regular A-list recruiters) and strong alumni base (well-placed and willing to help) are normally at the top of the list. The Sifarish related concerns should not be mixed with this issue – and how much of it is based on networking and referrals (which are accepted methods to find recruits or new roles/ jobs) and how much of it just recommendations of unqualified candidates is the question.Recommend
oh no?

@Luminite, You have managed to perfectly prove my point regarding arrogance. Firstly, its a fact that more than half the admissions atleast at LUMS owe to sifarish and i personally know many such people in my family and my ex-classmates. if you have an uncle who is a top bureaucrat, military or business/political personality then you have your admissions guaranteed. I personally know many bad students with bad academic records who made it there due to references.
The remaining half of admissions are on merit and nop is an attempt to maintain the standards of education as the elites are non-serious and arrogant lot. for example the only student to make it to Microsoft was the one from nop program, why couldn’t the regular students make it there? (btw only a small fraction of nop funds come from lums alumni).
There was one expatriate foreign visiting professor at lums who openly criticized their unfair admission process and there used to be a mention of that on wikipedia but its no longer there.
There was also a news about a financial fraud committed by a few lums students who were just suspended for a semester whereas they should have been expelled, but they were from influential families.
IBA has had serious corruption cases as well and that was in the news as well.
So what morals are these institutions teaching the elites when there is corruption within the institutions themselves?

Secondly, regarding the point on arrogance, I referred to IIT as an example of a world-class institute from our neighboring India that focuses solely on educational excellence and not arrogance unlike lums/iba and is ranked top 40 worldwide but our institutes aren’t anywhere in top 500. The reason for that is that good institutions are passionate about EDUCATION only and not about building and enlarging the gaps and classes within a society which is the main focus of lums/iba and they only want to maintain their own brand and create differences in the society. lums/iba grads get better jobs because they have better networking but not better education. all the internationally renowned educational institutes are passionate about education and universities such as Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Caltech, Princeton, Yale (and all such top notch institutes including IIT from India) all are making their education available for free to everyone in the world including videos of lectures delivered at classes, lecture notes, assignments and course materials/readings. they do that because their motivation and passion is to spread education which is why they are good at it, they are not in that business for money/pride/arrogance.
just google words like “MIT OCW”, “Stanford Engineering Everywhere” , “HarvardX” or youtube for lectures from any of these institutes they are all there even on youtube including IIT and the question i have is why is there not a single lecture from LUMS/IBA on the web or youtube if education was indeed their passion??? why can’t a lums grad even think beyond nop which is restricted to lums only and hence is as arrogant as anything else in the world???

Good educational institutes don’t come into existence by hiring faculty that graduated from a certain university or something, thats sheer narrow mindedness. Good educational institutes come into existence by creating a good philosophy instead and hiring people who best share that philosophy as well. main philosophy behind any good educational institute is to educate for the betterment of society. what have our institutes done to spread free education which is a worldwide trend these days? why do our institutions not come up with innovations and research the way international universities do? Recommend
Faiz Hassan

why the hell there is KU degree at display thereRecommend
engr

Aoa to all. People who are posting replies will come to a stage that after 10 or so years they would be interviewing others for job.So mates you would be the decision makers there and do bring the change ….. This stuff do hapens in engineering to where uet/nust is preffered but after all it all comes to the applicant . He/she needs to show strenght…. Good luck to all. Recommend
She

I refuse to accept that a degree from a renowned university is sin qua non to secure a position at a top-notch organization. Two years back, I graduated from a government university and I was told the same. To the contrary, I was selected for every position I applied for. 99% of them and I made the choices. In my case, they had degrees, I had nerve! Recommend
Noise

Stop getting an education for professions that are already saturated, Try something new for once godddamnitRecommend
tehreem

Your blog is true voice of a fresh graduate… I am afresh graduate and is a victim of reference-obia.Recommend
lul

i’m a lums graduate too. however, i am kind of getting tired of the “we” speak, as displayed by the cretin above.

thank you for working your ‘butt off’..but apni lulli itni ziada bhee nahi choosni chahiye.Recommend
Anonymous

I wonder if one has learnt something at an institute for like two-years or four years, then why after completing their education they start wailing about the poor economy, unemployment and sifarshi system. Ever thought why you are unemployed? Because you don’t know how to use your learning. Recommend
Sherry

Can’t agree more!!!

In my case, after going through different stages and passing each one of them, I made it to the last stage of Unilever’s Management Trainee Program and was not selected just because Unilever doesn’t hire students from Karachi University… huh!!!Recommend
Not Elite

For all LUMS and IBA Followers:

There is no second opinion that LUMS and IBAians are sharp and are well trained gentlemen than students from other less known universities. But is that so is the question. With limited seats IBA and LUMS enroll elite students already having a firm education background (A and O levels) and can afford to further spend more than 30k a month on their education. Still we cant lodge our companions to 2% of Pakistan and 90% of Tribune blog readers, but the question is why employers doesn’t even consider students from less reputed universities. Frankly speaking i have learned most of my work on job and i believe this will be the case with most working class people. And this why i believe that potential cannot be gauged from any grade sheet. Recommend
Saad Nadeem

the story told above was little more exaggerated..im currently enrolled in FAST business school and my experience speaks a different story about the job market.there is a great number of people who are graduating and getting jobs in MNC’s and other good local companies.It doesn’t depends from what business school you came from it depends on the potential and grooming your institute gave you.Automatically non-reputed business schools can’t manage to groom their students so they don’t produce good graduates.So its a simple story if you are good at something you will be hired.The story is not always about “sifarish” and stuff.10 years back FAST business school was no where near the job market but today it has a name and grads are hired from every field Alhumdulilah. FASTIANS don’t complain their institute because it has given us enough.Recommend
Another Luminite

Although I’m against discrimination of any sort, much can be inferred about a person who does not know that the Pakistani version of LSE is Lahore School of Economics and not London School of Economics … Recommend
Ghazanfar

It is true that there are some organizations which check your institution. In my opinion, institution really doesn’t matter as long as you got the required skills.

I don’t agree completely with the author regarding GPA. It isn’t necessary that higher is better. GPA only matters if you are looking for higher studies or teaching/research side. No one asks for the GPA once you are in the industry.

I’m an engineer. I graduated last month with a tiny GPA of 2.86 and I got a well paid job in a multinational company WITHOUT any reference, approx 2 months before my graduation. Why? Because I got the skill they needed.

MORAL: Its the SKILL that matters.

P.S: BTW some companies are really weird (like the one you mentioned) :pRecommend
Huzaifa Asif

I agree to writer’s view upto an extent but not all. Firstly, graduates from prestigious universities like LUMS are at far-better level than graduates from universities that are quite mediocre. If this is not then why it’s a dream of every children to study at most reputable universities. Why there are RANKING WEBSITES OF WORLD-WIDE UNIVERSITIES? Why universities like Harvard,Cambridge are deemed most reputable universities? Owing to this fact, they’ve standard of education and providing environment to students that is conducive to grasping knowledge.

Conversely, for instance, take a university that’s mediocre. Being a mediocre university, it definitely must not have set admission requirements that becomes quite hard for students to get in. Considering this fact, it’s probable that students who are dull, non-serious or those who haven’t set their sights yet may get accepted to it only because they know they won’t be accepted to upper-class universities. With such mixed-environment, students who maybe quite serious about their studies might become non-serious or certainly lose their inner interest for their studies and for obvious reasons those graduates won’t be as FULL-FLEDGED or PROFICIENT as compared to students of prestigious universities.Recommend
shocked

@Luminite: This article was about how employers only employ LUMS/IBA students, and you respond by stating that you were a lums graduate and then state “Now for the shocker. We got our jobs with zero references”.

Are you even an educated person. clearly you aren’t making sense and don’t even understand what the author here is talking about. clearly your employer only looked at your degree and didn’t spare a couple of moments to asses you on their own.Recommend
[email protected]

I think by LSE the author means “Lahore School of Economics” in the second paragraph below the opening quote, not “London School of Economics”, since she’s talking about Pakistani universities.

Other than that, a very poorly argued essay. The bias on part of the employers may be objectionable, but she’s not done herself any favors by incoherently frothing at the mouth like this. Recommend
One who does not hire LUMS grads

We started off on this track, giving preference to LUMS graduates, and I confess we were quite happy with some of the people we hired. However, in the last five years as the LUMS brand name has become more established, we find that the attitude of the LUMS graduates has changed. The going phrase in our office is ‘for a few rupees more’, not even dollars, i.e., they will quit. The skillset is good, but the desire to work hard, learn, experiment, and create appears to have diminished. Our best performer, who has outperformed LUMS graduates both in terms of output as well as salary, is a graduate from a government university. The number two does try harder. LUMS background is almost considered a liability in our company now. My sample size is limited, and I am not going to say there are a lot others like us, but perhaps it would help if the candidates highlight their strengths and commitment to work hard and contribute to the organization they have applied to when they are interviewed. Recommend
Elhaan Khan

Whether you have graduated from LUMS, IBA or Public university, the thing is all these graduates are job seekers not businessmen who have got creative mind to come with ideas like Facebook, Twitter or dating-site Okcupid. India and Pakistan universities can produce millions graduates but still they will work for others to build their dreams not their own. Recommend
Ch. Allah Daad

@ Luminite, Excellent comment. No doubt in some cases, school reputation and connections matter but its the hard work, sincerity and performace which keeps you in the work force.Recommend
Engineer UMSyed

@Engineer: You made my day. :) Best thing to do these days is to study Engineering from a reputed Govt or semi-govt University like NED, UET, NUST etc.Recommend
Mujtaba

I totally second with you but what the author is trying to say is that every one should be given a chance to prove his/her self.Recommend
Kiran

So very True.
I have been doing recruitment for different MNC’s for the last 5 years and interacting with the HR personnel of these companies. All the permanent/Key slots are for those who graduate from few of the Top Tier Universities. Others are not even considered for Internship program unless they have references.
My Humble request to all HR personnel of MNC’s would be to atleast give a call/chance for Interview to those who unfortunately couldn’t get a degree from Top tier universities due to any financial reasons and were not bright enough to get scholarship.
Believe me those who graduate from a less renowned universities have equal potential to groom themselves if given an opportunity.Recommend
http://www.sknawaz.wordpress.com Syed Kashif Nawaz

I have my own experience with LUMS/IBA/CBM/SZABIST graduates. While working with my Ex-Employers (A Bank in Karachi) I found them taking advice/guidance from Graduates of Karachi University (KU), who proved to be more knowledgeable & professional.

It definitely doesn’t mean KU or any other University’s Graduates are better then LUMS/IBA/CBM/SZABIST graduates. I am only saying we shouldn’t judge one’s knowledge, professionalism & competence on the basis of School s/he attended. Recommend
Saira

Very well written Luminite. I have two children studying at LUMS. They were admitted totally on merit andI I know the hard work and grinding that is required there. As the ownerof a small buisness I have worked with some of the students of LUMS and LSE as interns and I can vouch for their professionalism, hard work and brilliance.
But then this does not mean that students from other institute are not capable. Keep working hard and Inshallah you will get there.Recommend
Khan Jr

@Engineer:
Yes, Engro hires mostly engineers so you’re lucky in that respect. However, I think the writer is talking about jobs in MNCs (which Engro is not)Recommend
Khan

Honestly, stop whining and generalizing because it won’t get you anywhere. There is enough competition as it is. Not withstanding the fierceness of the competition in Pakistan you just rant on public forum blaming EVERYTHING on discriminatory practices in the corporate world! That is ridiculous. Recommend
rashid

bitter reality i have done MBA finance and MA ecomomics but unfortunately not from the the expensive universities and i dont even get a miss call for any interviewRecommend
Nouman Ahmed

@oh yeah?:Yor are calling HEC politically motivated, incompetent and corrupt, you must be kidding? You should admit that LUMS and IBA have a better system and that they are definitely better than other business schools in Pakistan. Recommend
Yasir Mehmood

Employers basically look for how efficient you are they even don’t care how much marks you got or from which university you hail. They basically look for their job being done, no matter who does it. Honestly, I think instead of spending such a hefty amount in Pakistan one should better look for a foreign university instead or perhaps one should do bachelors from a govt university here and spend the saved money for masters from abroad.Recommend
Mehreen

i believe you mean the “Lahore School of Economics” rather than the “London School of Economics”..Recommend
Khan

LSE (Lahore School of Economics) is NOT a top-tier university. Who put that idea i your head? And I speak from experience. Have you taken a look at their campus? Recommend
fatima

first of all , very well-written article i must say.I am an A-level student currently and within sometime will be chosing a university for myself.Even though i personally love IBA and LUMS and i agree they are two of the bestest universities of Pakistan but unfortunately i would’nt be able to make up to these universities not because i am not a bright student or i can’t afford the high fees , It’s just because i am interested in pursuing a media sciences degree which only SZABIST offers.So does that mean , i would’nt be getting a job anywhere just because i went for a uni which offers me a degree of my interest rather than a well-reputable university which does’nt?How unethical and de-motivating it is.Not all the students of LUMS and IBA end up getting a high GPA then how come they be giving more preferenve than other uni graduates?Recommend
Pakistani Agnostic (Riyadh)

LUMS was started by CEOs, Waderas and MDs of top notch local companies. Obviously they hired people from this uni to fill their company. In 1980s and 90s their work force spread out to major companies across the world and they in turn also favor people from LUMS as they are aware of the whole admission process etc. Rankings do not matter, alumni and their work positions do.
Also, due to the courses and the level of difficulty, many students earn top marks in standardized tests like GRE and GMAT and they in turn get admission to top universities in Western worldRecommend
Stats Speak for themselves!

LUMS/IBA are below average business schools. The avereage GMAT Score at LUMS EMBA is only 500 http://lums.edu.pk/graduate-programmes/executive-mba?classprofile and average GMAT for regular MBA used to be reported around 540 on their website and now they stopped reporting that.

Average GMAT Scores at any good university in USA is around 710 and even part-time and executive MBAs have average gmat around 670. Even second tier universities in Europe have a minimal GMAT requirement of 600 below which they would not consider the student for admissions.

We the pakistanis are fooled into believing these are good quality institutions.

It also makes me think where the merit is really going because pakistanis generally score above average in gmat/sat. Recommend
http://www.itblabbers.blogspot.com/ M.L

LSE’s campus is well-equipped and teacher’s really nice too but there’s not strict merit for admission , hence making it a sham-glamor Recommend
Naveed Buzdar

I have been serving in developing field since last ten years. All that you have written is true and I am observing every day in my job. This is really a dilemma of our society. LUMS, IBA and LSE are being financed by Industrialist and these are the people who owned every large multinational and national companies. So gone are the days, when merit was counted. Hardly 7-10% of poor students make to these “so called reputed Universities” otherwise, these institutes are no man lands for middle and poor classes. I must say the article is a longawited one and hope that it would let people to altleast think once for a while.Recommend
ffffz

The world is not fair.. boohoo .. get over it.. Fight!Recommend
RK Singh

of course, apart from this, you have just madrassas.Recommend
http://twitter.com/aliehtsham Ali Ehtsham

This article is explicit example of when you an’t get thing done blame the one who succeded in achiving what you planned.
I agree that MNC have devisd policies which just facilitate a few top noch schools but you also ned to understand that they want maximum efficiency most productivity in minimum time and after getting this criteria in mind yourself evaluate who will you hire.
You need to get over obsession that Universities like LUMS, Lahore School of Economics & IBA (Karachi) are taking places of your graduates they are getting what they work hard for. Seriously don’t tell me that you think that their curriculum is equal to other Public institutes curriculum.
And when it comes to comparison a simple average student of LUMS, LSE & IBA (karachi) to any other High GPA achived Public institutions student their efficiency & abilities enable recruiters to make decision.
Now what you needed to do was to ADDRESS Government to spend on improveing curriculum of these Public SchoolsRecommend
http://wasioabbasi.wordpress.com Wasio Ali Khan Abbasi

Firstly, as some of the comments indicate, not much useful is complaining since it will not affect the institutes. I am here, right now, telling you clearly that I have failed admission processes of both IBA and LUMS. For BBA program I had not prepared well so I failed IBA test in 2005. That day I decided never to apply to IBA, ever again, because during the test some uncle was constantly speaking on the microphone and his flowery words for institute were so damn irritating that I actually asked the invidilator “Can you ask him to be quite and only announce the instructions?” … even she shook her head sadly.
The arrogance factor was imparted in the IBAians right from the admission test and if students still have arrogance after graduating, I find it a believable. As for LUMS MBA, I prepared for it for a few months, even spent considerable amount on tutions, to pass GMAT and LMAT. I had a score of 570 that only got me as far as the interview in 2011 but got rejected right after that. Those that I know had a score of 600 or above, all got admission in LUMS. The admission process is indeed tough and I had to get through a lot just to get to the interview phase and even that was really testing. If the students of LUMS have arrogance, I think it is their right. I got into SZABIST without doing any preparation at all, either for the admission test or the interview, and will complete my MBA by december.
Now for all those who are complaining about unfairness. The world isn’t fair, so please stop whining. How many of those not-top-tier institutes have worthwhile faculty? I know for a fact that Bahria University lost over 70% of its good faculty members from 2007 onwards while SZABIST has started losing some great teachers since last few semesters. IBA lost many of its good teachers because they were hired by Iqra University or Biztek. Except LUMS, no other university focused on improving the quality of faculty and neither did they bothered to retain good faculty members. I myself once saw an ad in Jang newspaper, back in 2004, that IBA needed faculty members for some courses and basic condition was “only IBA graduates can apply”.
The case is very simple. These institutes have bred a certain mindset in their students, right from admission time until graduation and employment, and they will continue to maintain that mentality. These students have experienced a completely different style of education compared to their peers in government universities or low-tier institutes and are proud of it. When these students get employed, they will make sure to give something back and the ideal way is to get more students from their institute get employed in their companies or companies where their alumni network is strong. You are not the only one, author, who has faced discrimination regarding references. I have myself accepted references when I was working for a startup company and I have provided references as well when other professionals asked if I knew someone with certain skillset.
Understand the concept of reference, please. It is not to GUARANTEE employment, it is to guarantee a chance to get heard. We went through 25 candidates who had applied for the job, more than half had no understanding of the job they were applying for and the other half either demanded salary too high or had that aura of bolting to a new job for few more bucks. When my boss asked me if I knew someone, I gave him reference of one unemployed classmate from Bahria and he had the skillset we needed. He was called in for interview and he passed through that process, becoming a valuable employee. I also know of an IBAian who was hired at really high salaray in a local company, was fired after 4 months because all his decisions resulted in huge financial losses and was immediately employed at another company where his other IBA friend worked … so yeah, sh*t happens but if you don’t know the whole story, don’t complain. When I got rejected from PnG Internship Program and discovered a rather less able IBAian to get in, it also boiled my blood but then again there must be something he knew and I didn’t which created this difference.
Now for the finale. IBA and LUMS have faculty that actually know what they are talking about. These are the people who not only have several years of professional experience but majority of them are at the heart of business dealings, meaning they know every nook and cranny of Pakistan’s business dealings and are practically a walking-talking guide about how to survive. If there is corruption in business, it’s because these same people were either the initiators or promoters … if there is discrimination, it’s because they started it … if there actually are business entities, it’s because they took the chance and started the business in the first place. They know all there is to know about surviving in Pakistan and they pass on that knowledge to the youngsters of the institute where they graduated from. Frankly speaking, I consider myself an able speaker who has the ability to pass nearly every interview if given the chance, but this year aa HR professional (IBA grad) who conducts interviews for an MNC bank gave a lecture seminar and told us what purpose the interview questions serve, what are they looking for and what an ideal response should be. This is something we NEVER found out from our teachers, either from Bahria or SZABIST, despite the fact that many of them were working professionals with 10+ years of experience. In a similar fashion a teacher who had studied in US and been in Pakistan for the past 9 years, the sheer amount of knowledge and insights he has given us about Pakistan’s Entrepreneurial potential/reality and Marketing industry in one course is far greater than all other courses I have ever studied in BBA and MBA COMBINED.
So yeah, faculty does matter and if you and all others who belong to relatively low-tier institutes just like I do, understand that being low-tier really means low-tier and most MNCs will see it that way. We will be discriminated, we will be rejected at final stages and even if we get in, we may not fit-in because of the overall mentality and atmosphere of the company. If you still want to complain about discrimination, I suggest you start your own company and do the hiring process and two years down the line I will ask you how many references have you accepted and why didn’t you employed students from so-and-so institute.
End of rant !!Recommend
billlaChata

This article is BS. Total crap.
Its not about belonging to a certain good college or uni that can land you a job for sure. Its about how sharp and witty you are. And how good you can network and use the resources available to you to land yourself opportunities to prove yourself. And on that day, you either shine out or just fade. And being smart doesn’t mean you will always belong to the LSE/Lums/IBA league. It could be any place. And people (outside LSE/LUMS/IBA pool) with those skills have found jobs with good organizations.

Say whatever you want if we accepted your hypothesis, we would never find LUMS, LSE or IBA guys unemployed ever in the market.Recommend
Sarah B. Haider

Why did you show a UoK degree in the images :@ Recommend
Employer

Sad that people are making cheap excuses for their own incompetence.

Maybe people are not getting jobs because they are not good… nothing to do with where they studied…. Please stop making excuses, young Pakistan.Recommend
MUHAMMAD OMAR

i think so LUMS , LSE, IBA filled with elite and upper middle . . .

have they worries about jobs after graduation ??

2nd thing in Pakistan now good grades + reference jointly makes the job conformed !

LUMS and GIKI per semester fee is round about 1,50,000/- Rs only . .

there are also scholarships, financial assistance, and loan opportunity in these universities but despite of all this maximum elite can afford these educational institutes so elites have no financial problems at all !

” Will I get a job if I haven’t graduated from LUMS or LSE? ” damn sure Recommend
bystander

@ oh no?

I cant stop laughing at the argument you’re making. its flawed i tell you!Recommend
http://Www.hup.edu.pk Umer Sheikh

Worlds most reputed business schools, such as those of Harvard, stanford, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon became trailblazzers not because their graduates can speak english more eloquently, or present themselves in a better manner. It’s because these schools encouraged, fostered and mentored their students to seek entreprenuership instead of seeking jobs. The result of which is evident as a lot of companies founded by these students have made a huge impact on the US economy. Yes, LUMS, IBA, LSE are MARGINALLY better business schools, but only because they attract students who have had a rigorous academic grounding from the a-level & sat stream. The intermediate stream of students cannot speak, write or analyze as well b/c the education system is based on memorizing- not b/c they are stupid. And Pakistan’s most celebrated business schools will become business school when they start business incubation.

Thanks for the Thought provoking article! Recommend
deedee

Which LSE??? Lahore School of Economics or London School of Economics????!!!!!Recommend
Shakil

A sharp mind trained anywhere will definitely be an asset for a company! Now definitely there is brand market for LUMS, FAST and IBA graduates. Some employers wish to cut short the recruitment process and go for only graduates from these schools, however a person who never applied to LUMS and graduated from a public sector university can be more talented than anyone from LUMS or IBA.

Its not always school name get you job, sometime a part time job during your grad years will go further in an interview than your Alma mater! At the end of the day employers want someone who can be productive for them sooner than later! Recommend
de’Capolo

expert crap … Recommend
Ayesha Khan

Welcome to the free marketRecommend
Jibran

Very niceRecommend
http://na Firefly

If everything LYING IN THE NAME then what is the need of an interview and other tests.Recommend
Hasnain

A very well written piece. The author has mentioned that LUMS & IBA students are well deserving but its the perceptual bias that is prevailing creating problems for the masses.

She has managed to prove her point. Good Job!Recommend
Hassan

Very true,this is exactly what’s happening all around. Even i’m also an eye witness.
May they feel someday the fear of the wrath of Allah but someday….isn’t a day in a week(Unfortunatly)Recommend
Nosheen Munir

It depends on your capabilities, neither LUMs or LSE…!Recommend
Nauman

Why is KU degree labelled as rejected!?? Recommend
http://tribune.com.pk p r sharma

some institutions have created their brand value over the years which is reflected in their quality of education / faculty/ programs/ research / industry orientation. So a degree from these institution gives a guarantee of the minimum level of standard of quality of education/innovation to satisfy the requirements of the employer.
However , normally employers do not reject after the candidate has successfully passed through some layers of screening. ( they reject at the starting level itself if not from the so branded/ reputed schools)Recommend
Asad Ali

I am working for a renowned multi-national and its very common for our organization to select few universities during recruitment drive. This is not only biased attitude and lobbying within the organization but in the end, organization fail to hire a best talent because selective hiring will cost the organization in the long run while saving them time for the shorter period of time. however, i would like to mention the poor placement office in different universities.Recommend
saad khan

it is a very nice article and im glad to see such observing skills.
there are certain professions which require refernces. specially in my feild i.e. accountancy. as a lot of stake is involved therefore firms prefer to hire people whom they have assurity or guarntee. even i ahte it but it is delima of my profession.
i do agree on the discrimination among institutes. but pput youself in shoes of employer. a boy from lums or lse arives and a boy from a low or middle graded university arrives.theier personality,way of talking attitude will be different.u will opt for the lums or lse candidate.what i mean to sy is that. we need a proper hiring and recruitment system in each and every organisation to make it free and fair for candidates
once again zahra good workRecommend
Ria

Its never ending debate.
I an am IBAian as well and I know its not easy to get into the instution if you’ve not got a certain level of intellect. Its the merit that counts here to get into. As far as the preference by MNC is concerned its all about the confidence they previously have experrienced with the recruited talent who have been working in those organizations for a quite long time and have proved their worth.
Organizations pay off employees, for them they are fuel to reach the broader vision they aspire for as corporations. Its the reputation of these Institutes they have confidence in.Recommend
Salman

I am a IQRA University grad, after listening to all the BS about my university for more then 4 years I ended up getting employed by one of the very reputed MNC. Without any reference. Recommend
Sumbal Amin

I appreciate the way you boldly unveiled the reality of big Organizations.. thumbs up brilliant work :)Recommend
HUM

@Nouman Ahmed:
Please learn to differentiate between “we hire the best talent” and “we only hire lums and IBA graduates”. First is talent hunt, second is disgusting bias.
The article is the true depiction of utter stupidity that goes on in the recruitment process.
Writer is absolutely right.Recommend
Pround and Arrogant Luminite

Stop all you jealous people. Accept the reality. Accept the facts. It is not just Pakistan. it is all over the world.
infact..let me pose a question to all of you. If your kid gets admission in both LUMS and PU, where would you send him? And you all probably know the answer and the reality lies in the answer. Recommend
noisy neighbor

With the feeling of sadness and a bit if sham, I am afraid to say that I agree to the article.

These days the HR professionals of many well-reputed companies have been found guilty of favoring the candidates of their own institutes, but we can’t say that its their fault only. These days the job placement bureau of many institutes used their references (like the person graduated from the same institute working in HR Dept), to hire their fresh graduates.

I am not against the jpb of different institutes, but the people in the HR dept. shouldn’t be bias towards the candidates of their institutes and should give equal chance to resource/candidates of other institutes.

Zahra you have pointed out a very good thing in her article, and I really appreciate her writing on this topic. In past I have faced similar situation and I know it feels bad.

I hope something or anything can be done about it…Recommend
Iqra

very well written Zahra. i totally agree that being bias these employers are totally destructing the youth. this biased behavior of employer’s is actually converting the constructiveness of youth into destruction, which ultimately harms the society. i hope they can understand that. Recommend
Ahmed

Zahra harooon very well said and portrayed. Recommend
umer

Loved the concerned raised in this article.

Getting into a top notch MNC requires a degree from a top notch university !
But getting into a top notch university isn’t easy !
Sometimes financial circumstances of a person hold them back other times educational background !
For an IBA apptitude test chances are not equal for an Intermediate from Sindh board and a candidate from A levels background. I believe more than finances this is the problem.
Only pointing out that top notch organization only want top notch candidates is gonna solve the problem. We have a damaged structure from grass root level.
Please vote for PTI (the only political party that has a policy over this issue – 1 education system).Recommend
zehra

seems a case of grapes are sour!! see there is a reason why there are categories in everyhing, be in schools colleges , universities and even organizations, dnt we all have that? i highly disbelieve the response, you have quoted it could also be that in the interaction there is a slight difference in behaviour and hence not chosen or it could even be that there is a strong alumini and they want thier uni, but for that to happen is quite rare.
they have a better educational system( here we are only talking of management schools rather than other professions universities) so if you compare _ preston , MAJU,with IBA IOBM SZABIST then naturally there is a whole lot of difference, IQRA also has only recently started improving its brand, however still a long way to go, so i believe the same logic applies in lahore ,there are some which are considered best- coz their alumini have created a name in the market, thats their brand value and nearly all aispire to get that, then there are realitively newer insitiutes. however i know of people who have with a bba from ku and mba from ku are getting jobs in highly reputed mncs.so instead of wondering what the futurte will have in store for you, try to take control of all that you can do to paint a future of your liking!!Recommend
http://Zofia Zofia Javed

A well written article which portrays an exact picture of the current market situation! I would personally want to congratulate the author on writing such a fantastic article! Well, as far as I can see, the topic of the above article was NOT the reference and connection issue! Rather, it is the fact the institutes such as LSE and LUMS have replaced renowned institutions such as GC and Punjab University! I recently called up PepsiCo, Unilever and Nestle Pakistan to inquire about any job openings. The first question they asked before even transferring my call to the HR department was: “From where have you studied?” upon hearing my answer, their response was: “Sorry, but we hire graduates only from IBA, LUMS or LSE ONLY!”

Mind you, I studied from Government College University and we went on an International term to Kuala Lumpur to study at one of their best institutes; Sunway International University and Monash University! Most of my teachers at GCU have graduated from international universities such MIT and Georgia! We were given a diversified experience to study with students from throughout Pakistan! My point here is not to promote GCU nor it is to oppose institutes such as LUMS, LSE or IBA! It is merely to point out the fact that although we got best education with case studies method of teaching and were given practical experiences, however, we are not accepted by bigger organizations just because of the name of our institute! As far as I can see, our parent’s generation considers PU and GC to be the best institutes. These fancy institutes have emerged now! Zahra has rightfully complained about the fact that students from throughout Pakistan should be given equal opportunity to apply for a post in any bigger organization! I have interned in Nestle, PepsiCo, Motorola and Mobilink! However, my internships held no importance when I applied for a job! Only my institute mattered!!! Is this justified??? Is this the way to treat students??? Did we spend our parent’s legal money on our studies just to wait for a Rs. 20,000 job??? I feel ashamed to be living in a society which runs on classes and NOT on merit! Recommend
Hira Saleem

Excellant article zahra and very realistic point has been araised. I agree, this is what every leading organization has been doing with freshers. Only LUMS get chance to lead.Recommend
@Pround and Arrogant Luminite

Dear “Pround and Arrogant Luminite”:

Regarding your question “If your kid gets admission in both LUMS and PU, where would you send him?”, it pretty much shows how dumb LUMS Grads really are. You think PU is the only alternative smart people have for LUMS? There are thousands of Universities world over that are thousand times better than LUMS and they offer true education and not spit out narrow minded people like you. Stop benchmarking with PU and if thats the competition you have in mind then it tells what you are about.Recommend
Jibran

Agreed!Recommend
Iqra

very well written Zahra. i completely agree with you that showing biased behavior employers are destructing the youth, which can harm our society. we just hope that they can understand this fact.Recommend
http://tribune samar javed

I think this is not employer’s faults our education system is wrong because employer needs experience people and when we waste 16 years in graduation and and we know nothing .Recommend
Anarchist

IBA is a part of Karachi University………………….Recommend
Sab33N

@RK Singh:
Can you please refrain from commenting on something you barely understand? This topic has nothing to do with tradtional India / Pakistan rivalry but here you are .. an Indian commenting on an article related to Pakistani govt and private universities as if its the last thing on the plannet left for your breed to do. Get over Pakistan and go prattle about on Indian blogs. There is enough hate there to last everyone a lifetime!Recommend
Sab33N

@Anarchist:
I beg to differ .. please kindly consider the fee structure .. an MBA from KU will cost a lot cheaper then an MBA from IBA. Plus if IBA was part of KU, then there would be no need for KU to establish a separate business administration department.Recommend
Usman

Well, i have gone through the article and find it very true. It truly depicts the ongoing practice out there in the market. Though it’s a sad fact but yes true. Recommend
MHZ

I kind of agree with author. I really dont see why Luminites or IBAians are justifying the fact that they are good and they deserved that place . the point here is OTHERS are also good and they should have same playing field. There is nothing wrong with students here but mind set of companies need to be changed and we all should start from same level after graduation . if you are really that good then bingo .. u will end up getting a good job in MNCs.
Other than that its a fault of institutes as well. LUMS and IBA cherish and recognize each and every achievement just like NOP or student getting into MS, where as if we see GCU, PU, KU i dont find any news in here. I am damn sure that more students earn PhDs from KU/PU/GCU then LUMS/IBA ever produced.Recommend