What exactly is a Hindu rasm anyway?

Published: July 10, 2012

A “Rasm” can be Asian, American or African but cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Jewish. PHOTO: FILE

Recently, a friend of mine shared a small story about a “dholki” where friends and family had gotten together to sing and dance and celebrate an upcoming wedding of a dear one. During the festivities, a member of the gathering, who was quite uncomfortable, got up and qualified the event as a “Hindu’ana rasm” (Hindu ritual). This, obviously, was followed by whispers amongst the guests, looks of outrage and blatant stares.

Almost all of us have heard this statement at some point in our lives. There are many in our society who deem certain activities or wedding related rituals as being anything but our true culture, be it applying heena, playing the dhol or dancing – there will always be a stick in the mud.

To all those who shout “Hindu’ana rasm” every so often, I would like to ask:

What exactly do you mean by this?

The term itself is an oxymoron. “Hindu” refers to religion, while “rasm” is related to cultural norms.

The term only enunciates the utter confusion that surrounds it. Religion is a set of beliefs while “rasm-o-riwaj” primarily indicates a social set-up or an accepted set of norms. While it is agreed that quite often religious beliefs of a community may impact its culture or social norms, the latter, however, is more about the historical ways embedded in the lives of people in a particular locality. Hence, the way things are done relate more to the ways they have always been done in the relative part of the world, rather than what is being dictated by religion.

So, what one can deduce from such an analysis is that a rasm can be Asian, American or African but cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Jewish. To elaborate, we have Muslim brides in South Asia wearing red while in America, they wear white. And that is why we never hear anyone say that wearing a white dress to a wedding is a “Christian rasm”.

Thus, when people say that certain things are ‘not part of our culture’ I want to ask them:

Where exactly did we come from?

Did we migrate like the Americans did or have we not always been a part of this soil?

Indeed we have. We have a very strong and deep-rooted history. Our culture is that of the Indian sub-continent or what eventually became of it when people from different parts of the world inhabited the area. How can we then simply sever ourselves and claim to have a different culture just because there is now a border that lies between us?

The fact remains that the border was not always there. People have always been here and they have practiced rituals and norms which have become a collective part of our culture.

Let me also mention the religion stamps which are frequently given to names. It is claimed  that “names” too have religions. Quite amusingly, John is a “Christian” name, Ali is a “Muslim” name and Vijay  is a “Hindu” name. I mean isn’t Jacob an English version of Yaqub or Elijah of Ilyas. Why can’t we settle for categories like English, Arabic and Hindi, instead of Christian, Muslim and Hindu? These names are mere words of a language and have different meanings. For instance, “Vijay” means victorious so why can’t a Muslim be named Vijay? Names may and can have religious connotations, but each name carries a different meaning.

So to what extent will we go out of our ways to create stagnant differences?

The world has gone through much torment. Each community may have uniqueness while at some level, that community may be a part of a country, a continent and must co-exist in order to prosper and flourish. Let us enjoy our uniqueness, celebrate our similarities and enjoy our differences and move towards a higher level of peaceful co-existence.

This post originally appeared here

Follow Ali on Twitter @Baahirezaman

Ali Rahman

Ali Rahman

A banker who lives to love and respect humanity and Tweets @Baahirezaman (twitter.com/Baahirezaman)

The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.

  • Indi-Pop

    Meanwhile in a parallel universe, the Supreme Court of India has adjudicated that “Hinduism is not a religion but a way of life”. Recommend

  • Architect

    Apne markaz se dor agar nikal ja’o gy
    khaak ho’jao gy.. afsano mei dhal ja’oo gy
    apni matti pe chalnay ka saliqa seekho
    sang-e-marmar pe chalo gy to phisal ja’oo gy

    There is no nation in the history of this world, who has succeed by ignoring their virtues & values.Recommend

  • Mj

    @Architect:
    Our culture and customs are South Asian. Our ‘markaz’ is not Arab culture and social values.Recommend

  • Ha!

    @Indi-Pop:
    That made me laugh a little, must admit. :) Good job.

    So Writer, you’re annoyance is (some) Pakistanis wanting to create a different identity? Or is it that people “give you the eye” when you wear a yellow dupatta doing you’re very own rendition of “ainvy ainvy” at mehndis, dholkis etc?
    Or do you want to be called Victor or Vijay or indeed Veena (who says names have genders??)

    …one thing though, if you’re going to whinge about a “Hinduana rasm” (whatever that means) at a wedding etc then just don’t go! If you don’t like it, don’t join in. But don’t go to eat their food and take advantage of their hospitality and then complain.Recommend

  • Cynical

    Very well written. Particularly liked the differentiation of ‘religion’ from ‘culture’.Recommend

  • alicia

    This is quite true. I remember my overly religious Mamu never came to my birthdays because it was “biddah” or “Angrezon ki Rasm”. It really annoyed me for some reason. I mean all we did was cook some good food and eat some cake with our extended family. What is so blasphemous about that??Recommend

  • Mj

    @Architect:
    Apologies if I misread the intention behind your comment. I assumed, based on the sher you posted that you are advocating alignment towards Arab culture as the sher is often used in that context.Recommend

  • Another Victim

    Ok I say, Ghair-Islami Faill (act). Don’t agree? Waiting for you next column!Recommend

  • Ali tanoli

    I am personally against the ban on these things after all its happy time for family and friends
    please dont mix reliegen with our joint indopak culture for centuries.Recommend

  • mastindian

    @author

    hinduism is a cultural identity for idolators and non-abrahmic people of subcontinent.the initial people who have live beyond sindhu in 7th century.so your point is incorrect, both rasm and hindu are cultural even sir syed agree to it.Recommend

  • Babloo

    Extrimist, dogmatic ideology always leads to trouble. Be liberal. Hold on to whatever you find good in the past. Grab what ever you find good in the current and other cultures because nothing is static.Recommend

  • mojo

    Man you proved your Quaid-e-Azam wrong today who once said:

    “We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral code, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life.”Recommend

  • Ahmed Bilal

    @writer & MJ

    You guys seriously need a harsh wakeup call,causing confusion amongst the readers,by putting religion and culture in duch a way…what exactly do u mean by culture han???
    When ALLAH HIMSELF Had stated in his Holy Book tht Islam is a.way of.life..
    So its true tht so called dholki or watever thst sic practice is,has no placr in religion.
    Recommend

  • KDP

    I am glad that most Khoja Ismaili Muslims do not think that their culture is Arabic and continue to have Hindu sounding last names and retain many Hindu traditions or “Hindu’ana rasm” especially in wedding ceremonies. Recommend

  • akash

    Indonesia is a great example. They follow islam but keep their hindu cultural identity. Islamic republic of Indonesia has Garuda airline,they have Ganesh image in their currency notes, Ramayana is the national folklore. Sita, laxman are common muslim names in Indonesia. Why Pakistanis does not follow the same.Recommend

  • Ali tanoli

    @akash
    indonesian are good muslims but we are not from indonesia we are from central asia and arabia, persia, afghana diffrences is clear and islam also said (Aur deen mei puray ke puray dakhil ho jao).Recommend

  • anonymous

    We are still the same… these differences are created by the same divide and rule theory presented 200years ago by East India company and after that supported by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan with a two nation theory… to create and divide lands and make THEM administer in more manipulated way! Recommend

  • Pakistana

    Hinduana refers not to hinduism but to hindustan, thats why hinduana rasam means a rasam which originated from hindustan.Recommend

  • Reader

    The writer fails to acknowledge that even if calling it a “Hindu rasm” is the wrong “terminology”, calling it an “Indian rasm” is acceptable and the whole basis or writing this article still remains unaddressed! You are giving people a hard time for getting the terminology wrong and what of those who got it right? Seriously disappointed.Recommend

  • BlackJack

    Much ado about nothing. You wanted a country that was a ‘not-India’, then having rituals and customs that are ‘not-Indian’ is a natural corollary. I have celebrated Diwali and Holi with my muslim friends when I was growing up, no one seemed to have the issue that you people have. Pls celebrate Arab customs and rituals, they are your own; no point in creating an identity crisis when life is already so tough as it is.Recommend

  • akash

    Even if extremists eliminate the few remaining Hindus from Pakistan, they can’t erase “Hindu’ana rasm” (Hindu ritual) from the Land of Sapta sindhu, the Land of Harappa, Mohenjodaro & Taxila.Recommend

  • Sunny

    Imagine wedding in pakistan without dance mahendi & dholki, !! Huh How boring would that wedding be. Recommend

  • Junaidy

    so man if you thing its belong to asia not to hindus, than next time when u get married, or ur sister or daughter dont go for nikah in masjid, instead go to a temple n have Pheras,… Recommend

  • Junaidy

    @Mj:
    our culture and custome are from Islam.. Islam give us the Complete code of life, how to get marrieed, how dress up. even how to go to washroom.. dont make cnfusion by saying south asian… Recommend

  • Sensible Human

    @Ahmed Bilal:

    My friend Ahmed, I think you need little bit more enlightenment to open of your brain which can understand little complex aspects of life than just ALLAH and Quaran. When you are blinded by religious thought, you lose the ability to think rationally.

    Great article Ali. I commend you for rational thinking. Keep it up.Recommend

  • amit

    @akash:
    indonesia is not islamic republic indonesia is secular so indonesia and pakistan have no simillarity. india and indonesia have many similarity and not only indonesia but many you see many of ancient SE Asian architecture you can tell it was influenced by Indic once.you you see the script of mostly all of the South East Asian languages you can find out they come from India(tamil and sanskrit).South East Asia has been influenced immensely by Indian culture. You can see this in their dance, language etc.and And the biggest influence India had on East Asia(China,Korea,Japan,Tibet,etc) was Buddhism.but my friend today india-pakistan have no simillarity(except some language).their culture, dance ,lifestyle totally different from us.Recommend

  • Milestogo

    I am tired of doing this – but will do it again –

    Word Hindu comes from sindhu which is a Sanskrit word meaning water body, it also refers to sindhu river in Pakistan also known as river Indus

    Sindhu also gives you Sindhi, the people of sindh

    Sindhi, sindhu, Hindu, India, Indus – are all related words referring to land and people of river indus.

    There is no such thing as Hindu religion. Infact there is not a word same as religion in Indic languages.Recommend

  • Cynical

    @Babloo
    ‘Extrimist, dogmatic ideology always leads to trouble. Be liberal. Hold on to whatever you find good in the past. Grab what ever you find good in the current and other cultures because nothing is static.’

    Thanks a million.Almost prophetic.You made my day. Recommend

  • NO JOY

    perhaps a belly dance with a habibi type song in background will do….Recommend

  • Amina

    The writer is clearly having an “identity crisis” :P
    Religion, Culture & traditions are very separate things… please do your homework before deciding to unleash your Identity crisis with the rest of us! :)Recommend

  • Firaaq

    @Ahmed Bilal:
    Agreed.. and Religion has no “place” in the dholki either..
    Cheer up dude.. and take a break Recommend

  • Dr. O. P. Sudrania

    De facto, I couldn’t understand the very reason for such a demeaning post. It is a grotesque attempt to make a fun of someone. If I say, “Islam is a religion, then how can it be a jurisprudence and way of life for Muslims in the say tone”. It would certainly appear offensive. I would like to avoid such statements.Recommend

  • Tanzeel

    India is my forefather’s homeland. Its progressive, peaceful and prospering. Why shouldn’t I love India ?

    Jai Hind!Recommend

  • Parvez

    If we have to progress we must open our minds and hearts and realise that a little singing, dancing, beating a drum, putting colour on our hands and all such trivia, even if it originates in our neighbour country of India or wherever, when done in good jest and fun, does not and will not ever reduce our status as independent people. Behaving otherwise most probably will. Recommend

  • Critical

    @Sunny:
    Imagine wedding in pakistan without dance mahendi & dholki, !! Huh How boring would that wedding be.

    Not exactly,if you decide to imbibe the Arabic custom of belly dancing….Recommend

  • Critical

    A Pakistani muslim trying to distance himself/herself from South Asian customs and follow Arabic custom just because Islam originated from Arabia is like a Japanese buddhist discarding his local customs and follow Indian culture just because Buddhism originated from India…

    One can change his religion anytime he want,but not his identity….Recommend

  • Ahmedullah

    The famous physicist once asked if an electron can be happy or sad? The answer of course is that those adjectives don’t apply for electrons. Likewuse, calling Hinduism a religion in the sense of judeo-Christianity or Islam or any of the abhrahamic faiths is a complete misnomer. Hinduism is just a collection of ideas, beliefs and practices that originated in the subcontinent. Nothing rigid. No rules. Nothing to make one a Hindu. Or to make one not a Hindu. In fact, the word Hindu itself referred only to the people of the subcontinent, not to religion. There is no parallel in indian tradition for religion like foreigners mean it at all. The closest is sanatana dharma, that includes 9 schools of thought ranging from atheistic ( jaina, baudha) to agnostic to materialistic (charvaka) to monistic (vedanta) to monotheistc (vaishnava). You name it and there is hindu school for it. Let’s not fit a square peg to round hole. Recommend

  • http://itc.webmaasters.com atranaz

    @ ALI

    Sorry i m not agree with your point because its lack of information of yours also cause of not proper understanding of Islam , because today you are talking about this after few years we behave like Americans , Europeans then again we blame our self that why we make this continent ?

    kindly take interest in your religious studies & try to understand Islam ! Recommend

  • Mj

    @Ahmed Bilal:
    Not every Pakistani is an orthodox Muslim, you know?Recommend

  • Hukum Singh

    Another kind of Hindu Rasam- this time from South India

    Rasam is a South Indian soup,[1] traditionally prepared using tamarind juice as a base, with the addition of tomato, and chili pepper, pepper, cumin and other spices as seasonings. Steamed lentils are added along with any preferred vegetables.[2] Nowadays all the seasonings required are combined and ground beforehand into a rasam powder, which is available commercially.

    It is eaten with rice or separately as soup. In a traditional meal, it is preceded by a sambar rice course and is followed by curd rice. Rasam has a distinct taste in comparison to the sambar due to its own seasoning ingredients and is usually fluid in consistency.Recommend

  • Ali

    Good Job!Recommend

  • alicia

    @Junaidy
    Marriage and how we do the marriage is a religious thing e.g. Nikha, phera whatever

    BUT how you celebrate the wedding is cultural. Should we stop eating Ladoos and Gulab Jamun on our weddings because that is hindu? Should we stop wearing Lehnga’s and Banarsi Kapray because that is very indian as well. Or should we stop having dhol’s and Shahnai because that is hindu as well.

    Seriously even Arabs have that weird talwar dance thing to celebrate their weddings and duff’s. Then why should we give up our identity?Recommend

  • Rajendra Rana

    @Ali tanoli:
    There was such thing called indopak culture for centuries , itwas only indo culture for centuries Recommend

  • Sane

    Most of our Rasm o Riwaj specially in marriages are influenced through Hindu culture. Mayoon, Mendi, Jahez, Joota Chupai, Moonh Dikhai Arsi Mushaf etc. are driven from Hindu Rasm o Riwaj. We must do away from all these as these have burdened financially to us for no gain at all. Lavish dinner menu at these occasions is also waste of money. Money saved can be given to newly wed couple. Or must be sent for Haj or Umrah using the saved money.Recommend

  • http://salmanzq.blogspot.com/ salman

    Thank you for speaking up writer. It’s time we stopped this bullying by the bearded ones. I’m sick of their whining about everything. Don’t stop the bhangra!Recommend

  • Raw is War

    and your point is?Recommend

  • akash

    @Ali tanoli:
    indonesian are good muslims but we are not from indonesia we are from central asia and arabia, persia, afghana diffrences is clear and islam also said (Aur deen mei puray ke puray dakhil ho jao).
    Pakistanis are not from Arabia.You are from this subcontinent.You are treated as miskeen in saudi arabia.
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/389166/going-miskeen-in-saudi-arabia/
    Tell me,which Muslims Deen mei puray ke puray dakhil nahni ho sakte?
    Give me a list.Recommend

  • Sane

    @akash
    How you are treated in Saudi Arabia? hahaha……Recommend

  • akash

    @amit:
    today india-pakistan have no simillarity(except some language).their culture, dance ,lifestyle totally different from us.
    Well.. what can you expect when a country is used as a launchpad to to counter Communism through extremism.
    South East Asia has been influenced immensely by Indian culture.
    This subcontinent used to practice one single culture, not so long ago.
    Else why the author has written this article.Recommend

  • akash

    @Sane:
    When i said “you”..it implied the whole Indian subcontinent.Recommend

  • Shyam

    @Sane
    Better than you, hahahahaRecommend

  • Atif

    I am not agree with this because first you have to decide what your religion is, only than you can decide which way you have to choose, Recommend

  • akash

    @salman:

    Talking of beard…Growing beard, an Arab culture, was necessary for Arabic people, as it saves the face from sand storm while moving in deserts.
    Arabs & Indian subcontinent people have different culture & each one should be proud of one’s culture,civilization,heritage, people and land.
    This subcontinent( Including Pakistan) had been influenced by Budhist, Jains & Hindu Culture for thousand of years before the advent of Islam & not to forget, Islam came into the subcontinent through Arab Invaders.
    So..Practice Islam..keep your Cultural identity.Recommend

  • http://India vasan

    OK, now that Pakistan is likely to become desert fast, I suggest you start growing dates, ride camels, wear robes and suck upto the americans like your ancesterol arabs. Only problem is you dont have OIL.Recommend

  • JZ

    If there was something as “Islamic culture” it would’ve been prevalent in the entire Islamic world from Indonesia to Morocco. But even within these Muslim dominated countries, culture differs significantly simply because culture relates to geography not religion. While Nikah is ordained by Islam, wedding ceremonies differ drastically in various Muslim societies. This difference has to be understood. I am totally in sync with the writer who has clearly pointed out the confusion that forces people to point out cultural activities as Hindu’ana or UnIslamic or whatever else. Recommend

  • http://www.kabacreations.com Vishnu Dutta

    for the longest time i have been secretly laughing inside that pakistanis are shunning everything their forefathers created and giving the credit to indians on a sliver platter. Finally someone makes sense in this regard.
    religion and culture are two different things. whatever the naysayers say but the fact is pakistani culture is more close to indian culture than it is to bosnian, sudanese or arab culture. you kill your culture , you kill your identity.Recommend

  • Nishant

    so what exactly do these “people” want to achieve by abolishing these “hindu rasm”

    an islamic curfew..?

    3 feet distance between men and women,

    women cant even breathe hard

    no talking in public, no laughing, (dancing and singing is beyond that)

    don’t talk to “kaafirs” dont be friends with themRecommend

  • Sane

    @Shyam
    Good to know. Cause you have rich experience to be in job of Muslims right from Mughals and their emirs till Saudis. Habit of ‘Namastay’ makes you well fit everywhere.Recommend

  • Laila Noor

    Helloooo!!! this is not an idealist world. Welcome to the real world. Its not us who connect culture with religion. Its them the hindus who does it. Millions of Muslims in India have been killed in minority attacks Gujrat Hyderabad you name it..! Why have they being killed? Werent they ONE with Hindus? No they werent..they were killed because they were MUSLIMS…burnt alive because they were MUSLIMS ,,being INDIAN didnt help them much eh?

    Besides my argument for the PICTURE ALONE remains… we aren’t one with the Hindus…we never used to be one…if we were one…tou the ones currently living in India would have been in better condition then today…

    For your information subcontinent mein DIFFERENT CULTURES WERE LIVING TOGETHER..sikhs, persians, hindus, muslims, british…subcontinent isiliyay kehtay they isay..ssaath rehnay se koi aik nahi hosakta.

    we bring religion to our debate because our religion Alhamdullilah accumulates every part of our life..marraiges, education, women rights, civil rights you name it!!! Recommend

  • Sane

    @vasan
    When we were in that state, we conquered India. Recommend

  • Bravo!!

    My commendation to the writer for trying to revive this sick society that we live in….

    All we have done since the establishment of this so called nation is to create differences and isolate ourselves from rest of the world. Only considering Arabs as our true inherited friends and family. We as a society are so confused and brainwashed by these mulas that we dont even know our own rights of being humans. No day goes by where i dont encounter someone forcing there version of religion onto others.

    The truth is world is evolving whether we like it or not. We have to accept the change and integrate with rest of the world otherwise we will be at bottom forever……. Recommend

  • akash

    @Laila Noor:
    I think the discussion was on Culture & Religion.You took it to benchmark the living condition of people in India & Pakistan.
    Anyways…
    After doing the biggest genoicide of mordern history in 1971, after making 402 out of 428 Hindu temples of Pakistan disfunctional, after having exterminated ur religious minorities from 23% in 1951 to just 3% in 2012, after making a constitution which discriminates between Muslims & non-Muslims, after making Blasphemy laws legal ..,being PAKISTANI didnt help anyone eh?
    You say Muslims currently living in India should have been in better condition then today…
    I think you should see the Ex-Pakistani PM interview to CNN’s Becky Anderson.(Why dont they leave ?) HA HA HA.
    DIFFERENT CULTURES are still LIVING TOGETHER..sikhs, persians, hindus, Muslims.(INDIA).
    Religion should be like innerwear – worn on the inside.Its only use should be to protect your inside part/soul.Nothing more,nothing less.Recommend

  • akash

    @Sane:
    Get a life..
    You never ruled anyone.
    Islam came into the subcontinent through Arab Invaders.
    You just converted to that religion.
    Muslim rule in the subcontinent began in 712 CE when the Arab general Muhammad bin Qasim conquered Sindh and Multan in southern Punjab in modern day Pakistan, setting the stage for several successive invasions from Central Asia between the 10th and 15th centuries CE, leading to the formation of Muslim empires in the Indian subcontinent such as the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal Empire.Recommend

  • Eng. SURAJ PRAKASH

    Dear All with malice to no one.

    Kudos to the author for speaking the facts boldly. Let’s get over the narrow mindedness and treat world as one family give and get love.

    Culture and tradiions are regional with geograhical and historical background. It doesnt have any boundaries based on religion and bias.
    When in conflict go to sages who sprouted love, compassin and care.
    SUFISM is the answer. All religious followers cherish to go and seek the blessings at Ajmer, Fatehpur Sikri , Nizam ud din , Dargahas, and Peer Bhaba’s allover the sub-content It is our culture.It is our tradition.

    First lets be HUMAN a good human being above all. Recommend

  • agnostic

    @Laila Noor “Millions of Muslims in India have been killed in minority attacks Gujrat Hyderabad you name it.”

    Do you really understand the meaning of the word Million. I don’t think so. Recommend

  • ovais khan

    every sort ritual and cultural acts are allowed if these are not confronting Islamic teachingRecommend

  • Raman

    @Junaidy Again you have the biased view… Your culture has not come from Quran. Your culture has come from India. Your religious Dos and Don’ts has come from Quran. How on earth you entered with this psycho !!Recommend

  • http://peddarowdy.wordpress.com/ Anoop

    One would think since Pakistan was created on the basis 2 Nation Theory (which said there are 2 nations – HIndus and Muslims- with very little common between them) they would naturally shun everything Hindu.

    The argument Author makes here is its part of the local culture. Why? Because he likes the rituals, which frankly originated among the Hindus and later spread to the Muslims when they converted.

    Either you have to accept that Two Nation Theory was wrong and culture of sub-continental Muslims and Hindus are very similar. Or, let go off its Hindu origin rituals.

    Its already happening, in fact. For example, Basant was banned because, frankly, it was too Hindu-ish. Even though Yoga originated in the parts that is now Pakistan, Pakistan cannot, rather do not, take advantage of that brand because it is stamped “Hindu” all over.

    Of course, any South Asian has a right to call the Hindu culture as his own, but to say this has NOTHING to do with Hindu culture in the first place is not right. Singing, Dancing, Dhol, Nach, Gaana, Mehendi, Yoga ,etc are very much Indian and Hindu. India and Hindus own it and are generous to share their culture with others.Recommend

  • Reasonable

    @Laila Noor:
    For your information subcontinent mein DIFFERENT CULTURES WERE LIVING TOGETHER..sikhs, persians, hindus, muslims, british…subcontinent isiliyay kehtay they isay..ssaath rehnay se koi aik nahi hosakta.

    So you mean Pakistan cannot become one Nation as so many different people(Sindhi, Punjabi, Baloch etc) reside ?Recommend

  • H.

    Seems a lot of people have had the point of this article fly over their heads… kind of like how a Harrier Jet is perceived by a Beetle. Let me see if I can say something that MIGHT get to their heads easier.

    There is Arab Culture, Pakistani Culture, Moroccan Culture, Turkish Culture… Are any of these Islamic Cultures? I don’t think so. Those countries are VERY heavily Muslim populated but that does not magically make them all have the same culture.

    Likewise When you refer to Indian culture as being Hindu culture, CONGRATULATIONS, you’re a jerk. Why are you a jerk? Because you told a whole load of Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Jainists, and whatever other religions exist in India that they don’t exist.

    ALSO, There are Hindus in other places too. And their culture is also markedly different from that of a Hindu in India.

    And as for Christian culture? Well there’s England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Italy, Germany, Poland, France, Spain, Portugal and the Americas, etc. etc.,… And there are Protestant and Catholic christians… and several subdivisions in those… You’re in trouble if you think those are all alike.

    TL;DR: People who use ANY form of the phrase “X Practice, custom or norm is a HINDU thing and thus Allah-fearing Muslims should abstain from it” is a POMPOUS FUDGE BURGLAR and should not be treated with any degree of seriousness.Recommend

  • Nasamajh

    @akash: I am a Pakistani and my ancestors are of Iranian and Arabian descent and there are many others i know who have the same background :DRecommend

  • Ha!

    @Hukum Singh:
    HA!!! Loved it!! hashtaginitforthefunnies :DRecommend

  • akash

    @Nasamajh:

    I agree Considerable controversy exists both in scholarly and public opinion about the conversions to Islam.
    Alexander in 326 B.C or Bin-Qasim in 711A.D did not came to conquer India alone.
    Read the bellow topics.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndiancampaignofAlexandertheGreat
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
    conquestintheIndiansubcontinent.

    There are percentage of people e.g Parsis in India, who are Iranian actually (Zoroastrian).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsi
    GENE of most people in Subcontinent is the same,gene doesn’t change with the change of belief system.Recommend

  • akash

    @Nasamajh:
    I think we are not discussing GENE or RACE of different people staying in the subcontinent.
    It was just a rebuttal from my side to someone who said we ruled India & blah blah blah.
    I am not a racist nor do i have any issue with any religion.Recommend

  • Nandita.

    I love english food and chinese food and mexican food and oh I love italian food too ! But the thing is– I don’t give a rats ass about whether the food has christian origins or muslim origins or italian origins or whatever. I just eat the food and appreciate it. mAY I suggest that all you people do the same ? If u like a ritual just enjoy it.
    My neighbour in london is a pakistani lady who wears lovely salwaar kameezes. She told me she could stitch me one. i dont care wether the tailor/design/cloth is from pakistan. All i care about is how beautiful i look in it. since i end up spending my evenings with her, we’ve started exchanging recipies too. The idea is to embrace the best of all cultures and experience the beauty that varied customs offer.
    Some people find it difficult to grasp simple concepts. Sad reality.Recommend

  • http://www.kabacreations.com Vishnu Dutta

    @Ahmedullah:
    very well said. couldnt have said it better myselfRecommend

  • Its (still) Econonmy Stupid

    @Sane:
    You comment reminded me of a joke a man from Lahore told me. During partition some people were walking with placard shouting about independence. One Muslim asked a lower cast person who had just converted to Christianity what’s going on and the reply came” Sadde thoun Azadi Manng Rahiye hain” -These people are asking for independence from us.Recommend

  • akash

    @Its (still) Econonmy Stupid:
    Oye tusi chha gaye..Recommend

  • BlackJack

    @Nandita.:
    I hope you understood the subject (and several comments) – on how much it means to many Pakistanis to be un-Indian/ un-Hindu. Your wearing a salwar kameez is not representative of broad-mindedness (if there is such a word) because millions of other Indian women across faiths wear it too; the topic being discussed is whether Hindu rasams (rituals/ customs/ clothing) should be adopted by Pakistanis (a better parallel in this case would have been a sari) who feel their identity is rooted in Islam and not in Indian culture. Indians don’t decide on everyday clothing based on their religion and will wear whatever they choose – giving your example may not help a Pakistani make a decision.Recommend

  • Cynical

    @akash
    ‘Indonesia is a great example. They follow islam but keep their hindu cultural identity. Islamic republic of Indonesia has Garuda airline,they have Ganesh image in their currency notes, Ramayana is the national folklore. Sita, laxman are common muslim names in Indonesia. Why Pakistanis does not follow the same.’
    You compare Pakistan with Indonesia? That’s like comparing apples with oranges.Ind-onesia was doomed to have those Ind-ian contaminations in their culture that you listed in a self congratulatory manner from the day one i.e when they named it Ind-onesia. In comparison,Pakistan had a glorious begining.We were fortunate to have a father of the nation in Qaid-E-Azam Md Ali Jinnah, who guided us to and through the tortuous, but righteous path towards realisation of ourselves as a people and forming an identity for us essentially and necessarily not Ind-ian.And he did it in his inimitable style.Here it goes, ‘“We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral code, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life.” Never in recorded history you will find a better enunciation of an identity, theoritical as well as practical These are heavenly stuff. Pity, that people are squabbling about ‘Rasm-wasm’. Recommend

  • Deb;India

    @Ahmedull
    You explained it extremely well.
    Leave aside the foreigners, I doubt how many Hindus actually understand the plurality of Hinduism and the intellectual space it provides for diverse ideas to meet,debate and cohabit (pun intended). Recommend

  • NO JOY

    @Nasamajh,mind telling which language do you speak better Persian or Arabic?Recommend

  • Cynical

    @Its (still) Economy Stupid

    @Sane
    Sadde thoun Azadi Manng Rahiye hain” – These people are asking for independence from us.

    Great humour.But there is a message of great import about human frailties.
    Going by the comments from @Sane I doubt if his/her antenna will detect the message. Recommend

  • AJ

    You do realize that the reason the border was created AT ALL was because of a difference between our culture and religion and language and basically the way we live our lives, right? These “hinduana” rasms are in fact “hinduana” since they are not part of our RELIGION, the sole reason for the division of Hindustan into two states.

    Also, if you’re telling me that you think that there is not a difference between the culture of Pakistan and India just because of the way weddings are celebrated in this region, you’re insane! Have you even been to India? If you had then i’m sure you would have noticed a difference!

    Recommend

  • MilesToGo

    kc

    people miss your satire…Recommend

  • akash

    @Cynical:
    You compare Pakistan with Indonesia? That’s like comparing apples with oranges.Ind-onesia was doomed to have those Ind-ian contaminations in their culture that you listed in a self congratulatory manner from the day one i.e when they named it Ind-onesia.

    I did not compare. Indonesia is way ahead of Pakistan in every terms.I just set an example which Pakistanis could follow.
    Frankly speaking, after seeing the present state of Pakistan, every Indian agree on this fact,that the partition happened and they are glad it happened.

    In comparison,Pakistan had a glorious begining.We were fortunate to have a father of the nation in Qaid-E-Azam Md Ali Jinnah, who guided us to and through the tortuous, but righteous path towards realisation of ourselves as a people and forming an identity for us essentially and necessarily not Ind-ian.And he did it in his inimitable style

    Many died not for Pakistan,But because of Pakistan.
    .If Martin luthar king would have followed Jinah saab instead of Gandhiji then he might have demanded a separate state for black people in US instead of fighing for equal rights.

    Here it goes, ‘“We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral code, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life.” Never in recorded history you will find a better enunciation of an identity, theoritical as well as practical These are heavenly stuff.

    May be thats why Pakistanis today have an Identity Crisis.Recommend

  • akash

    @Cynical:
    Not sure why my earlier reply to you was not posted.
    You compare Pakistan with Indonesia? That’s like comparing apples with oranges.Ind-onesia was doomed to have those Ind-ian contaminations in their culture that you listed in a self congratulatory manner from the day one i.e when they named it Ind-onesia.

    I am not comparing Pakistan & Indonesia.Indonesia is far ahead of Pakistan in all respects.
    I just put it as an example in front of Pakistanis to follow.
    India is Pakistan’s Past & History.If someone distorts history, History will distort them.

    In comparison,Pakistan had a glorious begining.We were fortunate to have a father of the nation in Qaid-E-Azam Md Ali Jinnah, who guided us to and through the tortuous, but righteous path towards realisation of ourselves as a people and forming an identity for us essentially and necessarily not Ind-ian.

    Yah the path was tortous.Many died not for Pakistan,but because of Pakistan.
    If Martin luthar king would have followed Jinah saab instead of Gandhiji then he might have demanded a separate state for black people in US instead of fighing for equal rights.

    And he did it in his inimitable style.Here it goes, ‘“We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral code, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions; in short, we have our own distinctive outlook on life and of life.” Never in recorded history you will find a better enunciation of an identity, theoritical as well as practical These are heavenly stuff.

    Pakistan NEVER had a distinctive culture & civilization,language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature, sense of values and proportion, legal laws and moral code, customs and calendar, history and traditions, aptitude and ambitions;
    That’s why Pakistanis today have an identity crisis.Recommend

  • Sahib Scythian

    @Cynical:

    We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature…

    Just curious. How much literature, language, cuisine and culture does a Tamil Muslim, like India’s former president, shares with a Sindhi Muslim? How comfortable would he be in Lahore where he looks, speaks and dresses differently?Recommend

  • Nandita.

    indi pop – great comment ! . long time no see !Recommend

  • Cynical

    @Sahib Scythian
    “We are a nation with our distinctive culture and civilization, language and literature, art and architecture, names and nomenclature…”

    These are not my words.I quoted it from a speech delivered by the great politician,lawyer,philosopher,social scientist Qaid-E-Azam Md Ali Jinnah.So I can’t answer your question.
    For me, if it is said by Qaid, it has to be the truth.Recommend

  • vicky donor 12

    blackjack : nandita probably meant the tailor/design/style/cloth of her salwar kameez was pakistani.and pakistani style of salwars are very very different from ours.if u look at ppl on this site,indo pak ppl hate each other.so forging a friendship and trying to dress a bit differently (like a pakistani ) is open mindedRecommend

  • Indi-Pop

    @Nandita.:
    Hi there Nandita! Nice to see you too :) Btw have you shifted to London? Just wish to clarify that this comment was thanks to my legal education and not any right leanings towards Janta party types.
    I used to visit Tribune website more often before for Pakistani perspective on news but now find more of Indian commentators, Indian writers and India related news on this website. Not complaining but would like to see more Pakistani commentators to understand their psyche and their perspectives on all things ‘not Indian’ etcRecommend

  • akash

    @Cynical:
    These are not my words.I quoted it from a speech delivered by the great politician,lawyer,philosopher,social scientist Qaid-E-Azam Md Ali Jinnah.So I can’t answer your question.
    For me, if it is said by Qaid, it has to be the truth.

    Well..may be its true for you.
    Not for the rest of the Muslims in the subcontinent(India, Bangladesh, & many in Pakistan itself).Recommend

  • Sahib Scythian

    @Cynical:

    These are not my words.I quoted it from a speech delivered by the great politician,lawyer,philosopher,social scientist Qaid-E-Azam Md Ali Jinnah.So I can’t answer your question.For me, if it is said by Qaid, it has to be the truth.

    Loved your reply! I think it best demonstrates the differences between the two nation states.

    Gandhi is highly revered around the world, yet he and his thoughts are open to criticism, and he is not considered a divine deity in India.

    Jinnah on the other hand is treated like a demigod in a monotheistic nation, while he and his ideals remain nondescript at best to rest of the world.

    Have a good day!Recommend

  • http://tradersutra.com hariharmani

    @Ahmedullah: Muslim sounding name,but well versed,must be related to our former President Mr Kalam,it is pretty cool that your knowledge is accurate and deep.you are like me,who studies Islam,and other comparative world religion,thank god I’m not related to Reversechakra.(kalchakra).Good day,keep growing.It is good habit.Recommend

  • http://tradersutra.com hariharmani

    @Gaurav: How about Reversechakara,just that would suit him right.Recommend

  • http://tradersutra.com hariharmani

    @Sane: Better given to Hafeez Saead,he will take it and use it well,for the use of Pakistani Muslim.Recommend

  • http://tradersutra.com hariharmani

    @akash: Come down to earth and do not waste time with ILA ILONAT.Pure Waste.Recommend

  • http://tradersutra.com hariharmani

    @BlackJack: Reversechakra just forgot,give him some time.Please.Recommend

  • http://tradersutra.com hariharmani

    @Nandita.: You travel a lot,Germany,Delhi-India,USA and now Uk?When are you moving to good old USA?See you laterRecommend