The legacy of UK’s Pakistani Muslim predators
Did these British Pakistanis set out to ensnare young white girls or was it more about convenience and accessibility? Photograph: Greater Manchester Police/PA
On May 8, 2012, nine men, of whom eight were of Pakistani background, were convicted at Liverpool Crown Court for a range of offences including trafficking within the UK, rape, sexual assault and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. They were part of a gang who had groomed vulnerable young girls in and around Rochdale, Greater Manchester. They were given prison sentences ranging from 4 to 19 years.
Two distinct themes emerged from this trial; firstly, the perpetrators were by and large men of Pakistani heritage and the victims were young white women. On its own, there is nothing extraordinary about this.
However, in 2010, in separate trials held in Derby and Rotherham, some 14 men, overwhelmingly of Pakistani origin, were convicted of a catalogue of sexual offences against vulnerable girls, young white women – with some as young as 12 – who were groomed and sexually abused. In 18 child sexual exploitation trials since 1997 – in Derby, Leeds, Blackpool, Blackburn, Rotherham, Sheffield, Rochdale, Oldham and Birmingham – relating to street grooming of girls aged 11 to 16 involving two or more men, most of those convicted were of Pakistani heritage.
Whilst these particular trials dealt with Pakistani perpetrators and white victims, it is both inappropriate and incorrect to extrapolate from it the conclusion that all sexual offences of this type are committed by Pakistani men. For example, through the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP), the government concluded after investigation that of known suspects since 2008:
38% were white
32% recorded as an unknown ethnicity
26% were Asian
3% were African American
less than 1% Chinese
However, as 2.1% of UK population is of Indian or Pakistani origin (2001 census), it is beyond dispute that that group is disproportionately represented.
While detectives and prosecutors in the Rochdale case were at pains to point out that the men had not chosen the girls because of their colour, the judge in question left no room for doubt when he said,
Some of you acted as you did to satiate your lust, some to make money. All of you treated them as they were worthless and beyond all respect. I believe one of the factors that led to that was that they were not of your community or religion.
These trials and subsequent convictions have created an environment in which many and varied views have come to the fore with some being reasonable and some outlandish. They vary from there being a conspiracy of silence amongst the Pakistani community who, it is thought, would and should have known what was going on but chose to remain silent; the police, prosecution service and other child protection agencies being accused of being more concerned with political correctness – in not being seen as racist – than investigating the matter further; Pakistani men viewing young white girls as “easy meat”; to the leader of the British National Party- an extreme racist party - Nick Griffin using the convictions as evidence of “Muslim paedophilia” whilst campaigning with atrocious slogans such as “our children are not halal meat”.
What is remarkable about the convicted men from Rochdale is the extent to which they were leading a seemingly normal life whilst committing such depraved acts.
Abdul Qayyum, a married father of two, was convicted of conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. He first started working as a taxi driver and set up his own business. He was so highly respected by Rochdale’s Pakistani community that two local councillors provided references for him in which they had praised his hard work and how he had fully adapted to the British way of life.
Adil Khan, a married taxi driver, engaged in a sexual relationship with a girl just a few weeks after the birth of his first child. Abdul Rauff, a married Muslin preacher and taxi driver, was convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. This father of five chose to affirm that he would tell the truth rather than take an oath on the Quran.
The fact that British Pakistanis are represented at all within this type of offence is of great worry; the fact that they are disproportionately represented – 2.1% of population but 26% of offence committed – suggests an underlying cause that is difficult to explain and impossible to ignore.
Did these British Pakistanis set out to ensnare young white girls or was it more about convenience and accessibility?
The answer is not straightforward and one that may be uncomfortable for the British Pakistani community to accept. There is no doubt that a cultural stereotype played a part in the way these men groomed the young girls. They thought these girls were of lower moral value and not worthy of respect.
Equally, this was about exploitation of the vulnerable and weak. Nasir Afzal, the Chief Crown Prosecutor for the North West, and the main person responsible for bringing this prosecution, states:
It’s not race that defines (the perpetrators). It’s their attitude to women and young girls that defines them. It’s about men wanting to exert their power over young women.
Most of the victims were from damaged or dysfunctional backgrounds and susceptible to the traps of the groomers who would shower them with affection, attention and gifts. These girls were available in a way Asian teenagers are not – protected by the structure of family at night – and therefore vulnerable to such fiendish attacks.
The challenge for the British Pakistani community is to win the argument that these depraved acts are free of racial connotation and therefore cannot be used to target a single community. To do so runs the risk of disproportionate attention being paid to one community whilst leaving vulnerable girls open to exploitation by other men.
Read more by Sufiyan here.
The views expressed by the writer and the reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of The Express Tribune.
“They thought these girls were of lower moral value and not worthy of respect.” This is the mindset of most Pakistani men (and women too) in Pakistan, which needs to be changed (but hopes are too low). The notion that any crime committed against women is because they invited it themselves with their actions and behaviour is the major reason of such high level crime rates against women in Pakistan. And it is also because of this mindset that the highest courts acquits all but one victim in cases like Mukhtaran Mai etc.
I’m glad that these culprits got their penalty. Had it been Pakistan, instead of them, the victims (the girls) would have been sentenced for “enticing” these men!Recommend
I can say with certainty and much sadness that this sick behavior is not isolated. Although, it’s a northern England phenomena which is disproportionately represented by the number of un-educated folk from rural Pakistan. That said – they are still of Pakistani heritage.
What is really depressing is the lack of will by the numerous UK Muslim boards and Committee’s to condemn and address the route cause of the problem – i.e. education. Why the silence?
Until we tackle such problems head on, they will re-occur further damaging already weak race relations and harmony in the UK. We also owe it to the innocent victims (children) to stamp out this sickening mindset once and for all – even if it hurts “us” while doing it.Recommend
Crimes such as these deserve great condemnation but we must not be quick to stereotype any community, including our own. The action of some should not dictate the opinion about all. These men should get the punishment that they’re due but it should not be assumed thall all or most Pakistani men have similar instincts/values.Recommend
These cases will continue as long as pakistanis don’t start treating Paedophilia as a crime.As long as paedophiles are treated just as criminals and not the sick psychos they are,things will not change.There is a difference between rape and paedophilia,the media and society should stop treating these cases of paedophile pakistani gangs as just cases of rape which take place.Recommend
@Shahid Ashraf:
Are you serious ? They only target “non Muslim” White women because they’re seen as an over-sexualized piece of meat – that’s not only misogyny, but also racial and religious prejudice.
Not even talking about the fact that these White women are generally little girls, and the ugly creeps attack in group as hungry crows.Recommend
As long as our society keeps on approving marriages of small girls with paedophiles,nothing will change.These british pakistanis have taken their paedophile mentalities to england where the british girls are paying a heavy price.Even after this incident the british pakistani community remains in denial and are pretending as if there’s no problem with regards to societal acceptance of paedophilia in the british pakistani community.Recommend
These paedophile gangs are nothing new.When maulvis in pakistan regularly perform the nikah of young girls to paedophiles,then what else can we expect from the pakistanis living in england?
The pakistani community in England need to teach their sons that paedophilia is not tolerated in the civilised world.Raping of children isn’t acceptable in English society.This message needs to go out loud and clear to all pakistani men in England through their communtiy leaders.Only then will these cases stop.Recommend
@Zubair Ali
Well said and very accurate. These guys are mainly recent immigrants and uneducated. This is an imported problem in the main and not reflective of the Pakistani UK diaspora as a whole. We have our own issues – not to dissimilar to the “natives” – but not this!
The point here is this sort of activity is not genetic. It’s partly cultural deficiency and partly lack of education.Recommend
@Asif Malik:
No one is in denial other than the “elders”.. The same people who left villages of Pakistan for the shores of England 60 years ago.Recommend
These white girls have been specifically targetted by these Pakistani paedophiles because there is a widespread belief in the pakistani men in Britain that non-muslim girls are ”behaya’, ‘beghairat’ and so they should be abused.This mentality of thinking of White girls as not ‘shareef’ or ”pakeezah” is behind this atrocious crime.The misogyny seems to have been transported to Britain and efforts are needed by the pakistani public in britain to educated their men about behaviour towards women.Recommend
@Omair Shakil:
Thank you Omair. Wise words indeed :)Recommend
This is not unique to UK. This phenomenon of disproportionate representation of Muslims in crime is a common factor to every country.
In India, Muslims are disproportionately represented in jails and in crimes of all sorts.
This comes from the attitude of Muslims to be non-conformist to any law but Quran/Sharia. Now, does Quran teaches one to be a criminal? I don’t know. But from the statistics it looks like that. Or else, why would Muslims, who claim to practice the religion of peace are disproportionately violent?
In Bangalore, there a street called Tannery road. It’s basically a muslim ghetto. It is smelly, crowded, Kind of lawless, noisy and filthy. You take a trip down this road and you will come across 12-20 year olds who misbehave with women, who break rules compulsively, who are loud and rowdy, break traffic rules…
All these kids wear white skull caps, white salwar and are regular mosque goers.
Can anyone explain this?!Recommend
Until Muslims in the UK get off welfare which is basically begging for state khayrat, they cannot change their state. I have relatives in the UK who sit around with no jobs watching TV and playing snooker but have no desire to contribute to society. The same is true for North African Arabs in France, Turks in Germany, Afghanis in North America and Somalis in the West.Recommend
The challenge for the British Pakistani community is to win the argument that these depraved acts are free of racial connotation and therefore cannot be used to target a single community. Ok – so the British Pakistani community is supposed to argue that these honorable gentlemen are free of bias in their choice of little girls to rape or sell – in other words, better rapists than racists. Eminently sensible.Recommend
valaid tou puhuch gaye, leikin zehniyat wohi do takay kay jaahil gawaar ki hai…
The reason why this kind of crime is prevalent in predominantly muslim communities is because of their attitude towards women. We can expect these crimes from our MUSLIM BROTHERS When the prevalent mindset in our society for women who leave their homes are considered immoral, and are justified to be rape since we all know that men are all pure and without sin. What kind of idiocracy is this.
People have said that lack of an education might be a problem… its not the lack of education, but the lack of being part of society, lack of humanness, lack of respect for women, lack of respect of responsibility, lack of common sense, and lack of thinking ability. These kind of men, and the society that grooms them dont ever deserve to be part of any functional society. And it is times like these where I think that instead of giving 4-9 years to these men which really means 2-4 years, there should be life imprisonment, chemical castration, and death penalty.
This seriously sickens me to the core, and irrespective of gender, religion, or ethnicity, one must feel ashamed of such acts whether it be in the UK, or in Pakistani homes where its just goes by undetected, and unspoken for generation after generation.Recommend
@Shaq:
NO, formal education in such cases doesn’t mean anything. it is not a case of breaking traffic rules where a person was not aware of the crime he was committing. to respect a girl and a child’s modesty, you need not any education. a few generation back more than 70% population of the subcontinent was uneducated, so did it condone paedophilia back then? A BIG NO!
there is something fundamentally wrong in the way these people were brought up.Recommend
so how come BNP is wrong?how come the slogans”our girls are not halaal meat”not justified?Recommend
The problem is extreme insularity mixed with extreme misogyny mixed with extreme hatred for the ‘kuffar’ that breeds this.
To say that the image of Pakstanis and Muslims in the UK has been further devastated by this, would be an understatement.
Its not like that image was in any way positive given the growth of extremism, terrorism, forced marriages, honor crimes, separatism, sharia courts, lack of integration, anyway.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are more trials coming up.Recommend
Not good at all
Especially,when European natives are in economic depression and vocal against immigration…These men are biting the hand that is feeding them..The consequences are suffered by other south asians…
Well,this is not the first time,when muslim immigrants are indulged in heinous crimes…Take the Sydney Case and one of the offenders defended that if a woman didnt wear hijab,she is advertising herself as “open meat”
and one of the Imam called ‘Taj El-Din Hilaly’ who said that its the fault of the woman not to cover herself not the man’s…and its the woman who should be punished for enticing the men to rape her….
Honestly,if muslims dont correct themselves.The time will come when others will start to correct muslims forcibly…and I think that time would not be good for everyone…..Recommend
@Muhammad Zafar:
I really appreciate your comment…one of the most wise comment in the whole column. i am overseas Christian Pakistani and i have seen my country mates with the thinking that every white girl should be abused and is of lower character, but it has to do with the education and society we are raised in. however i strongly condem this pedophilia stuff and all these packs of craps should be deported immediately.Recommend
Sharia law to be apllied. If convicted then they should be stoned to death!Recommend
@Samson:
You and other pakistanis living in the West should speak up publicly in your new countries against this sort of mentality prevalent in pakistanis who’ve migrated to Western countries.It’s not just british pakistanis but american and canadian pakistani men too who think of Western girls as ‘loose charactered’ or not as ‘shareef’ as the hijabis or burka clad girls in their own homes.
It’s time misogynistic and discriminatory attitude against Western girls was abandoned by pakistanis living in the West.Recommend
The good thing about the British justice system is that they will treat this as a crime and deal with it accordingly and at the same time the government machinery will put rules and filters into the immigration process to ensure the entry of better stock into the country, after all it is their country. Also civic society and religious heads will work for harmony amongst the diverse people who make up their population. But then this is how enlightened, progressive people function, can we say the same about ourselves in Pakistan ?Recommend
INDIANS- HINDUS / SIKHS
The most imp quest Pak ppl need to ask themselves is this- how come hindus and sikhs do excellently in education and rarely indulge in violent or sexual crimes?
You answer that question and your country starts on the mend straightawayRecommend
@Suzy,
The problem is also people like you who are quick to pass sentence on 1.2M Muslims in the UK based on what you think is fair and accurate. I noticed how you quickly lined up the classic hate filled response of all things negative in your response – “extremism, terrorism, forced marriages, honor crimes, separatism, sharia courts, lack of integration” on an issue that receives no popular support from the viewers and respondents of this blog and bears not an iota of resemblance to the agenda you’re trying to create.
Stop poisoning and diluting the topic and drawing Islam into this.
From a very proud Brit of Pakistani origin.Recommend
@Suzy,
I forgot to add…. I have challenged the BNP leadership in the South East to a face to face debate on a number of topics. Rather unfortunately for you – the topics where the same as you spewed out in your comment.
Maybe we’ll talk someday.
:)Recommend
Its MOSTLY related to Education. Tell me how many educated people from Lahore/Karachi/Islamabad etc are involved in crimes in other countries???
.
We have failed to educate our people throughout the country on equal basis!
.Recommend
@Author
Thanks for this shocking story of human depravity at it’s worst.
But you seem to loose the plot and the message when you say,
‘The challenge for the British Pakistani community is to win the argument that these depraved acts are free of racial connotation and therefore cannot be used to target a single community. To do so runs the risk of disproportionate attention being paid to one community whilst leaving The challenge for the British Pakistani community is to win the argument that these depraved acts are free of racial connotation and therefore cannot be used to target a single community. To do so runs the risk of disproportionate attention being paid to one community whilst leaving vulnerable girls open to exploitation by other men..’
You apparently miss
1)that the ‘community being paid disproportionate attention’ is the same community that ranks at the top of the offenders list when compared to their relative percentage to total population. (as per the statistics provided by you)
2)the victims that you so patronisingly refer to as ‘vulnerable girls open to exploitation by other men.’ were also left to other men in the form of Chinese,Africans,Indians,Philipinos and men of assorted other ethnicity.But the men of Pakistani origins out performed them.
@BlackJack
God bless you.That was one hell of a robust rejoinder.Recommend
Please dont lump the UK Indian Hindu community with the pakistani muslims as “asians”. I have never heard of hindu gangs raping and abusing white girls. UK Hindu indians have assimilated well with in the anglo-saxon UK. The UK hindu indians are doing as well or better than the white in all the field such as education and standard of living. The uk muslim pakistani also have unique distinction of being the largest ethnic group on goverment handout/welfare at the same time abusing the society that feeds them. The uk muslim pakistani also have unique distinction of largest percentage of prison population by percentage.Recommend
All the men in the photos look like monsters… what a shame… and 4-19 years? Are they kidding me? These men should be imprisioned for life or deported back.Recommend
@Zubair Ali: “The problem is also people like you who are quick to pass sentence on 1.2M Muslims in the UK based on what you think is fair and accurate”
I am a Muslim and I too agree with Suzy. Indian Muslims get lumped with Pakistani Muslims and pay a price. While no-one says that all 1.2 million Muslims are pedophiles or racists, clearly there is a much greater propagation and acceptance of the notion that “we are superior to these kafir whites and that these white women are besharam and behaya” amongst the Pakistani Muslim community as a whole compared to other Asians including Indian Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims or Bangladeshi Muslims. I am not familiar with UK but I see this in US where I live.Recommend
@ Dr Mishra
On one of the American Channels a programme shows how Channel anchor with the help of police arrests men who deceive teen aged girls by chatting with them on internet and then fixing date to have sex with them.They come with bouqeuttes in their hands but are apprehended with the help of the would be victim girl. Would you believe., around 70% of of the child predators are from India.Rest are mostly from South America.Recommend
@najeeb:
well, then as an indian i condemn their act and demand strictest possible action against them and that law should take it’s course, and punish them.
would you like to give us the refrence of that news.Recommend
Strange observation, but I’ve noticed such misogynistic crimes disproportionately higher among UK muslims (and in a couple of cases even Australian muslims) as opposed to US muslims. Not to insult anyone or completely dismiss all US muslims, but even the mentality seems to be a bit different based on my experience so far.
More to the point, it disgusts me when immigrants from ANYWHERE migrate to another country and start acting entitled and go as far as exploiting the countries citizens. I’ve unfortunately seen it to be more common among South Asians; this reprehensible mentality needs to be abolished (yes, I said abolished. Shoot for the stars and we just might make it to a low lying cloud). Despicable behavior regardless of where you are in the world.Recommend
@UKIndian: I can’t speak for British Muslims, but I can speak for Pakistani-Americans,most of us are well assimilated and don’t rely on welfare, the median income for Pakistani-Americans is $77,000 much higher than the national average.
There are Pakistani doctors,engineers, scientists and IT professionals here in America and Pakistani Americans have high levels of educational attainment.This has nothing to do with religion, the main factor is that Pakistani-Americans are educate immigrants from urban Pakistan who migrated in the 80s and 90s.
Whereas British Pakistanis migrated from rural Pakistan and they were not well educated they migrated to Britain in the 60s.
Pakistani Americans get along very well with White Americans since most of us live in the suburbs.
@ The Author Why did you post this on a Pakistan news site?
I don’t consider British Pakistanis, Pakistanis, the same way Italians don’t consider Italian-Americans Italian.
They were British, their race and religion had nothing to do with this, pedophiles come in every color and religious belief, there have been Muslim pedophiles,Christian pedophiles,Hindu pedophiles etc.
@mr. righty rightist:
I know many Hindus here in America who harass girls at my school, that’s how Indians got the stereotype of being creepy(no offense).In fact many Indians here smell like curry.(no offense again).
If you’re going to generalize all Pakistani Muslims as pedophiles, I could generalize all Indian Hindus as homophobes simply because recently an Indian student in America was guilty of bullying his Gay room mate which led to him committing suicide.
OR I could generalize Indians as perverts simply because an Indian man was arrested in New Jersey for urinating on women or because a little girl named Lakshmi in India was forcefully married to a 50 + year old man.
You guys need to stop judging people based on their ethnicity or religious beliefs.
Peace.Recommend
According to detailed data on the religion of prisoners in England, it’s shocking to see Muslim’s disproportionate representation in crime with respect to Muslim’s population in UK.
(Muslims are 2.8% of UK’s population)’.
Prisoner’s Religion –
Christians – 49.9%,
No Religion – 32.5%
Muslims – 12.6%,
Buddhist – 2.3%,
Sikh – 0.8%,
Other – 0.7%,
Hindu – 0.5%,
Non recognised – 0.4%
Jews – 0.3%
Source – http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN04334Recommend
@manish
I have been around the world and based on my observation I think it is the permissiveness or prohibition on mingling of males and females which results in abnormal behavior.In UK the Pakistanis are mostly from rural areas and they are prone to such acts as they vent out their frustations due to restrictions in their places of origin. However in USA , Canada, Australia,Pakistanis are seldom involved in such nefarious activities.I understand the Indians who are educated do not involve in such activities. But those who are doing petty jobs anywhere undertake such activities.I dont remember the channel’s name but this program is there for the last many years. U may ask any indian who lives/lived in USA.Recommend
@1984:
The Sydney gang rapes are irrelevant, they were committed by Lebanese-Australians not Pakistanis.
There 1.5 billion muslims around the world we’re a very diverse community with various cultures and races.
Rapists and pedophiles come in all races.
What about this?
OR this Nine year old Russian girl
Read the comments on that video.Recommend
In response to @Nobody, you’re right. There’s a stark contrast between British Pakistanis and American Pakistanis. Although there are communities in America where Pakistanis huddle together and refuse to venture out and get to know America, I found that to be more common in England. Not sure why that is. Maybe because America is more welcoming than Britain? Even if first generation Pakistani Americans don’t change, you’ll see more change in their children. I saw that in Manchester, Pakistani girls are isolated from the British community if their parents wish it and shipped off to Islamic schools where they wear full veil. It’s harder to do that to your kids in America. There it’s harder to completely isolate yourself and your children that way. Maybe that’s why in Britain, generations of Pakistanis go on living like they’re still in the same culture they took with them from Mirpur decades ago. No offence to Mirpur. I’m sure it was better than this back in the day.
And as someone commented above, it’s not about education. It’s about having respect for humanity. You can’t even teach that to educated people if they’re resistant to change.Recommend
@ Dr Mishra
I understand sexual harassment is quite common in India .despite that Indian society is more open and tolerant than other countries in South Asia.Even in USA child molestation is not very uncommon. Many teachers have been indicted due to sex with young students.Rapes are common in developed countries too. In Pakistan women are respected.They are not made sex symbols as is in vogue in Bollywood movies. Pakistani dramas show women in respectful roles.Pakistani uneducated lot of UK is not the representative of all Pakistanis. In India majority of people are nice,but do not stereotype Pakistanis.Recommend
According to detailed data on the religion of prisoners in England, it’s shocking to see Muslim’s disproportionate representation in crime with respect to Muslim’s population in UK.
(Muslims are 2.8% of UK’s population)’.
Prisoner’s Religion –
Christians – 49.9%,
No Religion – 32.5%
Muslims – 12.6%,
Buddhist – 2.3%,
Sikh – 0.8%,
Other – 0.7%,
Hindu – 0.5%,
Non recognised – 0.4%
Jews – 0.3%
Source – http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN04334Recommend
@ayesha_khan:
I’m an American of Pakistani descent and I can tell you that Pakistani-Americans are well assimilated, we have many successful professionals in our community, I grew up in America with people of every race and religion imaginable and most Pakistanis never had a problem.
Most Pakistani-Americans are more liberal than British Pakistanis, and because of that inter-racial marriages are getting more common.
The median income of Pakistani-Americans is around $77,000 which is much higher than the national average and many Pakistanis are studying in good colleges in America, in fact my sister and many of my friends were National merit scholarship finalists.
We get a long with everybody, and we don’t treat white girls badly either, there are rapists and pedophiles in every race, I could name a few Indians that were involved recently such as this guy
I don’t hate Indians in fact I have many Indian friends and they’re pretty patriotic Indians even though they were born here in America, I just don’t like your ‘holier than thou’ attitude.Recommend
I think Islam has the solution for all problems in society. We have to be less tolerant of such crimes. Years in prision will not do… give them a punishment by which they will never be able to repeat it and by which others may become wary to do the same.Recommend
These are Mirpuris on the whole. They would abuse anything in sight although it should be said that grooming is not a problem specific to any community.Recommend
@Bruce Banner:
I’m not blaming the Pakistanis for the Australian rape case…I just wanted to highlight the fact that lot of south asians and middle eastern consider white girls as ‘cheap slut’.I’ve been in US.I can tell few facts abt the white girls
1.Some of them lost their virginity before completing school
2.Some of them practice live-in relationships
3.Some of them dress in ways what we feel as inappropriate
4.Some of them love to party and get drunk.
5.Some of them do involve in one night stands
But even if all my above points are done by a single girlThat doesnt mean that she shouldnt refuse if a man approaches her.Its her freedom to do anything she wants,which includes rejecting a man..
Many South asians(not specific to any religion) think that they can have a shot at a girl in a bar and many times end being roughed by the bouncers..
P.S.Regarding the comments on the video,I can notice that many non-indians(u know who) are posing as Indians and Hindus to write instigating comments and get abusive replies against Indians.. Why this Kolaveri Di??.Recommend
@Dr Mishra, Yorkshire:
Have you not been seen the Sikh gangs in East London and the ones in West London, the ones in West London such as HolySmoke (not active anymore) had many Sikh and Hindu members and by the way, most of the people who dropped out of high school from my class were Sikh and Hindu. I’m not defending Muslims (i’m an athiest) i’m just saying I disagree that Sikhs and Hindu’s do not take part in violent crime or sexual assault…..Doctor.Recommend
@Author
Could you explain me whether its a coincidence that I see another article on Pakistani immigrants in Dawn paper whose conclusions are similar to what you convey here
http://dawn.com/2012/05/16/pakistani-canadians-falling-below-the-poverty-line/Recommend
@hey:
One of the big differences in the character and behavior of immigrant Paksitanis in UK versus US is that the bulk of the migration to UK was by working/labor classes from rural areas of Pakistan. On the other hand the bulk of the migrants to the US came in the form of educated professionals, primarily doctors. Due to this difference in the mix, the value system of Pakistani immigrants to North America is very different from the value systems of the Pakistani’s who migrated to the UK. As a result of this, immigrants to the US and Canada have found it easier to assimilate in society versus living in Pakistani populated neighborhoods.Recommend
Excellent article.. agree with you!!Recommend
Dear friends we are all educated people here, lets not get defensive. If we look inside ourselves we know there is an ugliness that we dare not admit. Facts are facts. In Pakistan, I have seen men publicly beat their wives with chapals. While in the US, I know of more than one Pakistani who married a Hindu girl so he can get US residency. I also know a Bangladeshi professional who lost his job for touching his female colleague. I work with Iranians and Egyptians and I see similar attitudes.We complain about racism but we draw a circle around ourselves and anyone outside is a kuffar. Let me say it is both women and men who are like this. This kind of behavior should be of no surprise. The above comments which conflate “South Asian” with “Pakistani” display intellectually dishonesty and cowardice.Recommend
@Shahzad Kazi:
im a hindu living in india.muslims are involved in crimes with disproportionate figure,it doesnt matter from where they are.india,pak,arab.those who said earlier that ‘i know 1 or 2 hindu/sikh criminal’ either cant provide u with source of that news or the crime was a normal one and not a ‘trend’ like muslims are doing.even in my country where hindus and muslims are of race,muslims have far more crime rate,all these chhota shakeel,dawood etc. Are muslims.Recommend
I believe its called nbc dateline: to catch a predator. @manish:
Best wishes, CARecommend
@Punit
What about state monger crime and what about Narindra Modi and Col. Prohat and many others. I know it is very difficult for you to be fair in judgment, but facts can not be denied. Chota Shakeel or Dawood if they are the reality then it is the reaction to Bal Thakray and policy of your people who have same ideology like Modi, Bal Thekray and many countless names.
It is needless to talk about stately motivated crimes committed in Kashmir, Aasam and other parts of India on ethnic and religious grounds.Recommend
Alas … these pictures are of plain simple typical Pakistani faces !!!Recommend
@geeko: Still dont understand why in the world those girls go out with these old and ugliest guys with flaping ears. But then again,girls were young and naive. These guys brought so much shame to there family and caused a rift between paki’s and white brit’s that they should be punished as much as possible.Recommend
@najeeb:
Could you care to provide details of the news broadcast/print media which reported this piece of “news”? Najeeb, if you were honest and manly enough to admit that there is a huge problem amongst Pakistanis living abroad (I dare not think of the problems you have you in Pakistan itself!), you would earn my respect. But to defend such paedophile thugs and monstrous criminals by deflecting attention to another community, is base and cheap. You become an accessory to their misdeeds, my brother.Recommend
No one can justify such crimes BUT I WONDER why the western governments let it go on for so long (despite many warnings)?
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Is it a way to let these things go to a level where whole community can be tarnished????Recommend
@Ayesha Pervaiz
You need to read the history and sociology.Punishments do not reduce crimes, Social classes and economic factors really matter.Do you think crime is not committed in kingdoms?
Broader definition of crime includes human rights, equality of justice, equitable distribution of money etc.In Japan ,crime rate is very low.In middle eastern countries the VVIPS rule and common man suffers.Do not follow the things told to you by biased opinions prevalent in our society.Recommend
@Ayesha Pervaiz
I am sorry i cant agree with you.One needs to study criminology to understand these psychological problems. You have over simplified approach.Recommend
Its about time the Pakistani community stood up and put their foot down on the Mirpuris in UK, who are giving a bad name to the entire Asian community. Most of them are rapist, criminals and are involved in every mischievous activity in the UK.Recommend
@Ayesha Pervez
No Dear sister, such issues are not too simple to be resolved by punishments.Recommend
Totally sickening below humanity, sad sad sadRecommend
I agree with najeeb its not that simple , its issue of certain mentality, many guys who coming out of villages to bigger cities like Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad, have similar view about modern educated outgoing girls/women of these cities.Recommend
.. i am just wondering why not Hindus/ Sikhs/ Jains are in there…?Recommend
In our country there have been big headlines about the fact that immigrants are so over represented in the rape statistics. Here it is mainly people from Irak, Afghanistan and Somalia that are way over the numbers looking at how many immigrants we have. Of the cases being in court the immigrants are having one third and we have about 5% of immigrants in Finland. It is now under discussion has this something to do with the religion and the way of how muslims see women.Recommend
@Bruce Banner:
Yes, they were lebanese Australians but do you know they were the Muslim lebanese Australians? Christians make up a majority of the lebanese Australians but those rapes were religiously motivated attacks by the more recent Lebanese muslim immigrants where the main perpetrator Bilal and his friends called the victims, “Aussie sluts”. He was unrepentant too in prison. A lot of the Mullah’s have been telling them to rape women calling them “uncovered meat”. We see in the news all the time of poor Hindu girls being raped and them offered marriage and conversion to Islam in Pakistan. Perhaps it has been an age old practice in the Islamic realm where non-muslim women with no financial independence may have no choice but to accept the offer.Recommend
@1984:
Couldn’t agree more! Excellent observation. This is actually a mindset of alot of Pakistanis (I won’t comment on all South Asians as I don’t know about all of them). A girl dressing “inapprpriately” or involved in an activity which some consider inappropriate is considered a license by many men (an women too), to misbehave with her. A clear example of 2 girls being gang raped a while ago in Karachi, where the Advisor to Chief Minister, Sharmeela Farooqi (herself a woman) after meeting with them gave comments which implied that the girls had invited this to happen with them due to the way they were dressing and they were coming from a “Party”. Moreover, the acid-throwing, cutting noses, and honour killing are also a result of such thinking. So, I have no doubts many Pakistanis with such mindsets would have the similar opinions about the women in the West too.Recommend
@Alina:
Well said.Recommend
So the facts are against Pakistani men. Its safe to say Pakistani men are generally behind these type of crimes.I am pretty sure these guys were using some mullahs words of wisdom as moral justification for what they have been doing. This will keep going on until this musjid immam and mulah system holds as much influence as it does on the community. I am ashamed to call myself a Pakistani especially in the UK.Recommend
@Hamza: Tell me are the Indians also ashamed in the US? Watch the NBC Tv special which shows how a sting operation caught Indian men trolling internet sites in the US and were caught trying to trick teenaged US girls into having sex. I suspect you are another Indian using a fake or a real name to intrude on issues in the Pak community. Criminals can be from any background and yes I’m glad these criminals in the UK are charged the same way many Indians in the US were charged this week with medicare fraud of millions and those Indians who were sexually abusing teenaged girls were charged.Recommend
I can’t believe these guys were married fathers. How can a father do this? I really hope their family abandons them. Nothing would shame me more than their wives deciding to stand by them.Recommend
What the Englishers are saying….
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146410/A-small-minority-Pakistani-men-DO-believe-white-girls-fair-game-Tory-cabinet-minister-Baroness-Warsi-calls-mosques-act-Rochdale-grooming-gang-scandal.html?ito=feeds-newsxmlRecommend
@Bruce Banner:
The Ashfield gang rapes were a series of attacks involving indecent assault and rape of possibly as many as eighteen teenaged women of varying ethnic backgrounds which were carried out in Ashfield, New South Wales, Australia in late 2001 and over a six month period in 2002. A group of four Pakistani brothers and a Nepali student were convicted and imprisoned for the rapes.Recommend
The UK Pakistani Muslims also have dubious honour of having the most genetic abnormalities in a community as a percentage of the population owing to inbreeding from first cousin marriages.Recommend
@Ayesha Pervez “I think Islam has the solution for all problems in society. We have to be less tolerant of such crimes. Years in prision will not do… give them a punishment by which they will never be able to repeat it and by which others may become wary to do the same”
If Islam has all the solutions,WHY muslims don’t use those solutions. If I am not wrong, talibans were specially trained to apply “Islamic” soultions to problems of Afghanistan and look what happened. Most Muslims now say “talibans” are not true Muslims..
To keep Muslim women safe, women are told to wear burqa, stay home or go out with a mehram man. That does not seem to work, so some countries use religious police. In addition to that honor killings, female circumcision etc are used to keep men and women from hacing affairs. On top of that lashing, stoning to death is also used to keep people in line.With all this Islamic measures sexual crimes still happen.
If you have to control people with “fear” of hell or “fear” of death (beheading) it is not a big accomplishmentRecommend
@Muhammad Zafar: “widespread belief in the pakistani men in Britain that non-muslim girls are ”behaya’, ‘beghairat’ and so they should be abused.This mentality of thinking of White girls as not ‘shareef’ or ”pakeezah” is behind this atrocious crime”
When one of these WHITE girl conveerts to Islam she become a pious Muslimah. Muslim girls are about the same if they get equal freedom.
Muslim very well know this, that is why they get their daughters married to their cousins when she is 17-18 year old.
When you see a young woman doing bad things, you can help her become a better person or you can use her. These people used these girls to make money and tried to destroy their lives. I bet all these people prayed regularty and fasted during RamadanRecommend
This is an article found in a uk news[aper
I moved to the Rochdale area when I got married and my Indian wife refused point blank to live in the town because of the attitudes of local Pakistani men.
She was apparently doubly a whore being asian, non muslim and married to a white man..
I worked there for 10 years and I know from personal experience that young white girls were fearful around Pakistani men and today it not safe for them to walk around alone in parts of Rochdale in broad daylight.
On one occasion I had to intervene to help a small girl in a school unifirm who was being hassled to get into a car by a gang of asians who looked to me to be in their twenties. Two local asian shopkeepers watching what was going on smiled and did nothing.
When I made them clear of I found out that she had wet herself, was aged 11, and was literally shaking with fear.
I rang the polioce on my mobile while she clung onto me saying “I’m scared of them Paki men. I’m really scared of the Paki men” over and over.
I will never forget this and it is one of the most distressing experiences I have ever had.
No-one is saying that most Pakistani descent men are not perectly decent people.
But a culture that seeks to keep itself seperate from the wider culture in which it exists; which views outsiders with suspicion and hostility; which regards women of other races as sub-human and avaialble for rape has been allowed to grow unchecked like a weed without challenge on the strength of “diversity” .
If this issue is not dealt with it will quickly get out of control. The young women of the area should not have to live under curfew in their own home town, while predators cruise the streets unchecked for fera of “cauding offence” to teh Pakistanis community.
I can understand that the Pakistani community would like this all to just go away.
Well too bad.
They have a problem and its time to clean house.
No more silence; no more self-pity; no more lame excuses.
and the authorities need to enforce the law, without fear or favouRecommend
Another article
I live in Oldham, just next door and have friends in Rochdale. My female friends cannot go into certain areas of Rochdale DURING THE DAY because they get harassed by Pakistani men!
This is not a blame game. It is a vile thing that had gone un-addressed inside the Pakistani community for far too long (and as an earlier comment has noted, it is time to clean the house out and change this)
They have the wrong attitude for this country, it is vile and disgusting and must be brought to an end. They must change their attitude and the Police and Courts must actRecommend
A 13 year old little girl is regulalry openly abducted by Pakistani men from her childrens home. She is forced to take drugs until she is semi unconscious. She is openly ferried around the Pakistani areas where she is raped in multiple flats by up to 25 DIFFERENT Pakistani men a night. She is then openly dropped off at the childrens home with bruises and in pain. Not one concerned or outraged member of that community reported it or stepped in despite the community claiming to be very close knit. Not one Pakistani stood for the prosecution during the case (or any of the previous 12 cases) and in fact two pakistani councillors gave evidence on behalf of the defendents(AKA RAPISTS) knowing the effect this would have on the victims and the impression it would give of their attitudes.Recommend
We can’t ignore it
Simon Danczuk, Labour MP for Rochdale
This month, Labour experienced some of its best ever local election results. Turnout, however, was worrying, falling as low as 13 per cent in parts of Greater Manchester. For me, one of the abiding memories in Rochdale was the exhilaration of new councillors as they won their seats; but I also recall walking up to a group of youths fixing a motorbike outside a house on a council estate in the Littleborough area on polling day. “Will you be voting?” I asked. They shifted uncomfortably, looked askance and mumbled, “No, but we would if the BNP were standing.”
A few weeks earlier I had sat facing a distraught mother in one of my weekly surgeries, watching her shake with fear and anger as she described how an Asian man had raped her daughter.
If politics is to mean more than bureaucratic white noise to people, it has to give a voice to the voiceless. When mothers tell me their daughters are being hounded by groups of Pakistani men, I will not leave it to the likes of the BNP to address their concerns.Recommend
@mr. righty rightist:
according to islam, u cant even have unmarried sex so rape should be out of the question. and in countries with islamic law these criminals would receive greater punishment like physical amputation for robbery and murder. Sharia law is rather harsh as everybody knows.Recommend
I don’t know how frequently Pakistanis in the US commit crimes but it was disturbing for me to work in a Pakistani community. The harassment was unparalleled to anywhere else I had traveled in the country.Recommend
@u-too: “according to islam, u cant even have unmarried sex so rape should be out of the question. and in countries with islamic law these criminals would receive greater punishment like physical amputation”
I don’t think any religion approves of unmarried sex or rape. There are preists, there are imams who rape kids. Greater punishment has not solved any problems. Incest, rapes, prostitution even happen in Saudi arabia. Most of the times in incest cases in Islamic countries even mothers don’t support their daughters. In many Islamic countries a girl complaining about rape gets more punishment then the rapists.Recommend
@u-too
If the victim is muslim yes you are indeed correct then the Sharia Law applies. Not if you are Hindu. How about forced abduction and marriage of hindu girls in Pakistan ? My grandparent tell horror stories from partiton. Why do Sikhs still remember even after hundreds of years the atrocities Muslims committed ?
I think Muslims create hatred and prejudice towards themselves. Why are Muslims hated and despised so much ? Have you really asked you self this question ? Do you really think Hindus are envious of the Islamic religion.Recommend
@Red ……..”it was disturbing for me to work in a Pakistani community. The harassment was unparalleled to anywhere else I had traveled in the country”
Are you saying you felt sexually harrassed? What city, community you are talking about? I I think there is very low criminal activity of sexual nature as far as being in the News in Washington DC area. I remember reading about some Indian and Pakistan men killing their young wives in NE USA. I read more and more south asians being involved in multimillion of dollars of medicare fraud. I think there is more criminal activity of nature of WHITE COLLAR crimes like bribes, fraud, cheating on taxes etc.Recommend
Author says “Adil Khan, a married taxi driver, engaged in a sexual relationship with a girl just a few weeks after the birth of his first child. Abdul Rauff, a married Muslin preacher and taxi driver, was convicted of trafficking and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. This father of five chose to affirm that he would tell the truth rather than take an oath on the Quran”
I think Abdul Rauff chose to tell the half truths that were known to police. He played a game by not swearing on Quran. Is swearing on Quran to tell the truth some kind of sin?. How a God fearing Muslim preacher, father of 5 kids, can be involved in prostitution and have sex with a minor and refuse to take a Oath on Quran? Does he think God did not see what he did?Recommend
A public beheading for them all!Recommend
People forget it is generally poor people are the ones who migrate to foreign lands, in others words the crap of a country try their luck abroad, so obviously the poor Pakistanis are the ones who try their luck abroad be it in USA, UK or Australia, Canada etc. If someone is happily settled in their homeland be it Pakistan, why would they leave for good? You rarely hear of someone from the upper middle class and of Pakistani origin committing such a crime so it is definitely related to poverty, inadequate life skills and education and the people who do such heinous crimes I can guarantee are also suffering from a mental illness.Recommend
@BlackJack:
No the challenge is for the respectable members of British Pakistani to prove and demonstrate that just because there are a few bad eggs among them, it does not mean all British Pakistanis are like that. SimpleRecommend
Seach the bet for whole story
UK: Muslim woman’s secret Hindu boyfriend is brutally tortured by Muslim gang after she falsely accuses him of rape
May 10, 2012
The barbaric barrage of violence included setting fire to the victim’s face, beating him with a belt and kicking him in the stomach. But the Muslim gang was not charged with a ‘hate crime.’ Gee, I wonder why?
UK DAILY MAIL Sonia Begum, 21, a Muslim woman who pretended she was raped by her boyfriend, leading to his prolonged torture by a gang, because she thought he would show explicit photos of her to her devout parents has now been jailed.Recommend
It’s really weird how people determine how all Pakistani – background are like just because a number of people. Like in any other place in the world, Pakistani’s can be different from each other depending on their background in Pak. Alot of these people are from rural, uneducated backgrounds, this can make a big difference.Recommend
It’s wrong how people determine what all Pakistanis are like just because of some. Like in every other place in the world, Pakistanis are different from each other depending on their backgrounds. Many of these people are from rural, uneducated backgrounds – this makes a great difference on people.Recommend
@Knotty:
Exactly my point! Most people who left were not from educational backgrounds – I rarely find someone from Lahore, Khi or Islamabad here in Britain.Recommend
@najeeb:
Can you please name the program or channel? From what I know this happened in the case of only one man of Indian descent. I don’t remember his religion but I think he was not muslim.Recommend